newbie to DSM [Archives] - MONTREALRACING

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persianrider

05/05/2004, 23h33

well yes.... im a total newbie to DSM

im looking at 95-99 mistu eclipse gst

id like to know alot of things actually ...first off ... the engine code... or what is the term you guys call this car ? (for example my 90 integra is a G2 :laugh: )

what are reliability issues? what should i look at ?

and the obvious

what would lets say I/H/E + chip ...how much should i expect outta that ?

i want something reliable ... and fun to drive at the sametime

in other words

shoot me whatever you feel like about this car... i really wanna know everything :bigup:

thanks

GSR

06/05/2004, 00h05

the engine code is 4g63t

your looking into the 2generation talon which has a 7bolt crank, and is known to crankwalk when heavily modded

the car is just as reliable as any other car if it is taken car of. These mistu. needs alot of attention, but if your looking for a fast car you'll have a blast with it.

with just a Manuel boost controller 2.5 exhaust and knn you should have a blast around 15psi with ur t-25 turbo

go to dsm quebec for more info

dji

06/05/2004, 07h53

here is the bible on this site!

http://www.vfaq.com/FAQlocator-index.html

every question you might think of will be there as an answer!

persianrider

06/05/2004, 08h43

thanks

and when you say heavily modded you mean what exactly for this perticular car?

if i only put the above mentioned mods ... basic bolt ons and the boost controller.... would it be considered heavily modded for this car? i dont know what heavily modded is in this case ... so thats why i ask

also ... whats the stock psi? and how much can the internals and block handle on this car?

and by alot of attention you mean what GSR?

thanks alot guys

braytag

06/05/2004, 11h37

first off PSI don't mean shit. you can drive 19psi on a t-25 (poor t-25) on stock internals really easy, I mean REALLY easy.

second, the basics bolt on for a second gen (95-99) dsm is the following

1st gen BOV (50-100$)

exaust 4-500$

open air filter 100$

MBC 50$

with that on a car that's in good shape should get you about 240-250hp. or low to mid 14sec

A guy even ran a 13.9 pass with less than that.

but we HATE theorical HP, in the dsm club we run time slips, not theorical hp/dyno sheets...

and no that's not a heavely modified car, it's pretty much a stock car to us.

persianrider

06/05/2004, 14h47

with the torque DSMs have... they must really kick the shit outta GSR/typeR on the highway no? (out of topic but still intresting to me)

and with these numbers

WTF why are people buying other cars?

lol who cares... less of these = more fun on the road at whippin other guys asses lol

well well... now im really looking more into this

how much should a 96-97 gst with leather and lets say 80-90K on the engine go for?

braytag

06/05/2004, 15h02

it's harder on the highway cause of AWD drivetrain loss

but from a start, not even funny, like racing a f1 with a scooter

but you it's pretty much gonna be the opposite because of the GST, everybody will tell you, get a GSX

also you will pay much more for an eclipse instead of a talon

your eclipse WILL be a VGA, the talon, not

and if you wanna swap the bumpers/taillights/wing, they are IDENTICAL cars.

even with the swap, talon will be much cheaper

persianrider

06/05/2004, 15h21

well arent there places that import eclipses? like centre de l'auto mtl? those are not VGA are they?

Franky

06/05/2004, 16h03

FWD (as GST) really kick ass on the high way! AWD vs FWD isn't a question that one is better, it depend of you!

Personnaly, I won't buy an AWD instead of my FWD. I love it too much! AWD = better start, traction. FWD = a lot of burn, torque steer, highway killer, from a roll killer, less weight, less power lost... Fun Wheel Drive ;)

A Talon convert into eclipse = less $$$ than an eclipse VGA or import Eclipse (a lot $$$ more... lot lot...) And it's the same thing!!!! (99% of eclipse in canada are VGA... to buy a not VGA, it will need à lot of luck and lot of $$$$)

For the engine, it's à 4G63 and we say 2G for 95-98-99 and 1G for 90-94. 90-91 engine are 6 bolts and can support approximatly 500hp. others 7bolts can support 400hp, when heavily mods. On stock internal I mean!

Chip = nothing

Header = on nt model... on turbo we call it exhaust manifold... let it stock or port it, that's it!

Upper ic pipe is a good base mods too to add to Braytag's list.

And as we said : eclipse = talon with different bumper, light and wing. No more difference... except for the VGA thing! Don't listent to people that says that talon are scrap and eclipse great. Lot of people say that... with my plymouth laser, I heard that all the day long! But with some basic mods I could do easily 13 sec with. More, there is some people that did high 12 with stock turbo and engine (1G) and it's not so hard to do it!

persianrider

06/05/2004, 16h15

ummm stupid question but

are there talon turbo fwd only?

i looked on hebdo and all i found was TSI AWD

Franky

06/05/2004, 16h19

not stupid. People say that there was no FWD talon tsi sold in canada, but my friend buy one that seem canadian spec.

There are really rare. Most of them are probably US VGA too! ;) That sux, no? :(

But it's only for 2G. For 1G, there is a lot of FWD turbo. But I suppose that if you want a 2G, and more, an eclipse, you're searching for esthetic. So 1G...

persianrider

06/05/2004, 16h28

well im looking for a newer car but the 2000 and aboves are damn ugly ass hell (mitsu)

95-99 has always struck my eyes and now im looking around and i find that this car has more and more of what im looking for ...

im really not after esthetics... believe me all that i would do is buy some nice mags (16s) and everything else will be engine... no skirt no lights no nothing lol...

i was going to do this to my acura but its useless on an N/A honda ... waste of money + its an old car ... ive tried vw... honda... now im looking for something new

thanks alot for the help guys ... really appreciate it

any perticular days you guys go to the track? id like to come and watch or even ride in one :)

BlackTalon

06/05/2004, 17h16

Cool persian, if you look you will find A FWD turbo, did u try lespac?

Im getting my 95 AWD turbo very soon if all goes well with the inspection. I drove it the other day and damn they are fast... i thought i was going to go back in time, like in back to the future...(joke) :laugh:

is there are reason you dont want to consider an AWD?

dji

06/05/2004, 17h26

We are often at nippleville! not like eclipse owner's who are way too chicken to bring their vga or 5k overpriced car on the track! lol (except you Jim who is into the 12 sec.lol)

just come and watch us go! But after seeing or feeling an awd start, you will want one, I swear the god!

persianrider

06/05/2004, 17h47

lol ... well to be honest i want a FWD cause im so used to driving one... + it loses less at the wheel...

so eclipse guys dont show up? lol ... id show up...

well next time you guys have a meet or napi meet someone send me a PM or post it somewhere ... id like to tag along and watch

ill check on lespac...

ICE_T

06/05/2004, 17h55

persianrider

07/05/2004, 09h27

okay ive heard of reliability problems....

apart from the heavily modified typical problems...

is the rest just a myth?

please tell me yes (lol)

btw im going to test drive a spyder turbo tonight just to feel it

GSR

07/05/2004, 10h21

like i said, if you mod(i mean slapping on some big turbo and the supportting mods) and you beat it evryday the obvious parts will brake, you have to remember that these car are getting old and when you mod them they becone pretty powerfull.But if you treat your car right it will treat you right. i've had my talon for two years and nothing ever broke(besides the engine once :cry: broke)

Franky

07/05/2004, 10h48

There is no mystery. Is a Porsche or Ferrari reliable? Not at all. Why? Cause they're making lot more torque than a so reliable torqueless honda civic.

DSM is the same thing, with some more problem, as for the cranck walk.

Listen, it's sure that if you wanna own a DSM, you must not drive it as if someone would like to kill you, do mods anyhow and going to any garage only when the car is no more running as everyone does (those who are saying that they never spend money on theire car during the last 2 years).

If you read the DSM Quebec board, do your tune up, give attention needed and that you are careful to your problem, you won't have much problem. If you want to mod it, repair it before. You must always do repair before mods and sacrifice your mods instead of your repair. A problem + mods = a bigger problem. And a problem + wrong garage = maybe a bigger problem too. Ex : the last owner had a problem with the oil pan (don't know what). He went to GMS and they bolted one bolt on the wrong side. The bolt touch the timing belt. It grind it. If i would let it like this a little more time (I didn't want to change it, it was a new one and the GMS garagist told me that it wasn't a problem), the timing belt would be no more, and no more t-belt = scraping valve set and maybe the head engine too. A lot of problem for a little bolt!

BTW, the right garage is PSM Performance at Montreal. :) They are the best for DSM (we all are going there).

For the rest, yes they're crankwalk problem. 1/10 2G DSM have this problem that can be develop when you develop lot of power. But there is people who say that if the car have 100 000 km or more and show no crankwalk sign, you wont have it... but i'm not sure of this affirmation. The timing belt is always something to check to all 60 000km. The tranny is little cheap (often synchro problem on the 2nd), but it have to support lot of torque. Anyway, tranny's problem happened more often on AWD. Ok, I scraped mine, but it was a wheel hop problem! :)

What are the others rumors that you heard?

persianrider

07/05/2004, 13h28

BlackTalon

07/05/2004, 13h35

when i say unreliable i mean for example

my 2002 golf

27 problems in 14 months ... brand new out of VW

and just in the last 2 months

2 new trannies ......

so lol... if its just a problem here and there... all good but thats what i mean as in unreliable in my case lol cause if seen it all

holy crap.... i cant believe your golf is being like that

honestly i think you will be fine as long as your get the dsm inspected before buying... if you drop the clutch every time you are bound to have problems but if you drive normally and have fun with your car you should be fine... its the people who rip the engine through the gears everywhere they go who are the ones that have problems.

persianrider

07/05/2004, 13h41

ill be honest and say i redline maybe once a day ... thats about it .. the rest of the time im stuck in traffic anyways ...

ya my golf ... lol no comment... everytime i drive it i pray to god nothing will break

i drive it rarely now... have my teg :) hehehe old but love it

and by redline i mean like ill redline 1 gear and thats it... fun for the day

and once in a while track

braytag

07/05/2004, 14h52

this ain't no stinkin honda, no need to redline

I get 10x more fun playing in and out of boost that hitting redline

[MICK]

07/05/2004, 15h55

well arent there places that import eclipses? like centre de l'auto mtl? those are not VGA are they?

damn right u are lol .. my dad owns Centre Auto Montreal-Ouest .. we import non vga eclipses . We are probably the only place in quebec that do this ... our cars are fully inspected CAA ( they have to pass the inspection to be able to be registered here in canada ... and they have to pass a federal inspection also. ) ... We`ve sold over 55 eclipses in montreal in the past 2 years ... PM me if u need more info .. we have some 95-99 GST`s almost ready for sale :bigup:

Franky

07/05/2004, 16h04

You know, on a DSM, max torque is at 3000rpm. So it's so much more fun to make spool the turbo at 3000rpm and be at WOT until 6000rpm than hit the redline!

I praticly never touch the redline (useless except if a mamouth turbo setup with cam, retainer and spring (for over 8000rpm).

My friend was the same with his precidia. Cut-off all the way to get max power, now, he don't ever know if he got rev limiter or not... no need! :)

Anyway, stock, over 6000rpm it's less powerfull than at 4000rpm. For exemple, in 2nd at 6000rpm, if I put my foot to the floor, it won't burn. At 4000rpm, it will burn exactly when I'm gonna be full boost!

persianrider

07/05/2004, 16h11

very very intresting

im going to have to adjust my entire driving and shifting with a DSM

well ... its a challenge but im sure ill adjust.... it will be fun to feel these differences

im so used to redline being one of the most important aspects lol

BlackTalon

08/05/2004, 20h47

vino007

10/05/2004, 02h16

I bought my gst at centre de l'auto mtl ouest and the service is really bad! my strap still scream after 3 times that I went to their garage, and they finally told me to go somewhere else to fix it!

by the way, does anyone can give me the number of psm performance??

thanks

Venom55

10/05/2004, 05h17

persianrider

10/05/2004, 09h22

should a convertable (spyder) be more expensive then a none convertable? lets say same milleage same everything?

dji

10/05/2004, 09h40

like any other car, yes it will be!

any convertible car will be more expensive than its non-convertible version.

the more cool you look with a car the more you pay!

talon vs eclipse

reliant k vs porche

stock suspension vs 3 inches drop

(your money power x the car you want = how cool you will be)

persianrider

10/05/2004, 10h17

btw... when i purchase this vehicle soon after (very soon after) i should have 3K to dump in it... what do you guys suggest?

Alain95i4

10/05/2004, 10h36

persianrider

10/05/2004, 11h41

i was thinking something along the lines of

what you guys already said:

1st gen BOV

exaust

open air filter

MBC

since thats not 3k i guess what should be done is shocks+springs+better tires?

and what kind of shock/spring combo is good on DSM? i have no clue

dji

10/05/2004, 12h24

yes you can do that first! look at the link I sent you in the first post!!!

you can keep your side mount intercooler for a while. you can do mid 12 with it so its not a rush.

1. Fix the car

2. Do the free mods

3. Get a boost gauge and a egt

4. Change your bov, uicp, exhaust (2.5 po is enough), air filter and your mbc if you want but it might be useless for now. With these mods you should be near the maximum of the t25 (15psi) so a mbc is useless.

braytag

10/05/2004, 12h40

you should not spend 1 $ before reading through the entire faq on the dsm.org site.

like the bov question, the suspention question, all answered there.

READ ABOUT THE DAMN CAR BEFORE BUYING IT, you will then know the crankwalk problem, and how t check it.

AFTER that, keep it stock for the whole summer. All littles defects should come out, during the winter, you fix those.

NEXT SUMMER

upgrade your car, you should know enough to to **** yourself by lowering suspension/installing a aftermarket bov that does psss psss

MonOncTsi

10/05/2004, 12h59

to flush the t-25 for a bigger turbo and front mount intercooler

probably bigger injectors too and an electronic boost controller like the profec B

That sure is an odd upgrade path for a DSM. Have you ever owned one? I can name you at least 5 things to do before even thinking about ditching the stock turbo and intercooler.

persianrider

10/05/2004, 14h29

read alot of the reviews and suggestions on the Dsm link... very informative... thanks alot guys... im looking forward to coming to the track and watching you guys

now im just going to sit back keep reading for a month or so more and then start seriously looking at something more concrete.... you can pretty much say you will have a new DSM guy lol.... i dont see what else can come and attract my attention

btw i really appreciate the help i got from you guys... i used to browse the VW board here and lets just say "no comment" and the honda/acura lol ... no comment as well

braytag

10/05/2004, 14h42

well go read the REAL dsm board

quebec.dsm.org

about a trillion better than here.

normally we come post here when we're bored out of our minds

MonOncTsi

10/05/2004, 17h41

Persianrider, so far, you've been nothing but a nice guy. I'm sure you'd make a good addition to Club DSM Quebec. Come visit us.

persianrider

10/05/2004, 18h30

BlackTalon

10/05/2004, 20h54

persian rider, if you want to upgrade for speed. I think this is a pretty good path to follow.

http://www.buschurracing.com/upgrade.html

the site also has a forum... sells parts... etc

http://www.buschurracing.com

MonOncTsi

10/05/2004, 23h58

thanks....

i joined club dsm ... i read alot there too...

only question i have is ... why the heck arent there more DSMs on the road lol....

i mean... they look just fine .. they are faster.. and sometimes as fuel efficient as Honda .....

oh well... who cares lol

Back in the days, a Civic was a 12K subcompact while a Talon was a 25K Sports Coupe. I'd compare it more to a Prelude. Now, you don't see that many Prelude, don't you?

persianrider

11/05/2004, 00h04

agreed.... still though.. a lude is slow lol id call it a slow compact and not sport

MonOncTsi

11/05/2004, 16h49

agreed.... still though.. a lude is slow lol id call it a slow compact and not sport

Stock for stock, the later Preludes are as fast as DSMs. Of course, modding a DSM is a zillion time easier. But the Lude is also quite a bit more reliable. Depends on what your priorities are. I like the raw, eye poping, acceleration of a moded DSM and I don't mind the fact that's it's not they most reliable car around. Other people prefer reliable, good looking transportation with aesthetics mods and booming sound systems.

It's only a matter of taste, really.

P.S. For some unknown reasons, I've noticed that 2G Eclipse owners are not that much into performance. And even when they are, they always seem to make all the wrong choices and have zero tuning skills.

braytag

11/05/2004, 19h41

P.S. For some unknown reasons, I've noticed that 2G Eclipse owners are not that much into performance. And even when they are, they always seem to make all the wrong choices and have zero tuning skills.

j'espere que tu parle pas de mon IBMeux préféré la...

MonOncTsi

11/05/2004, 22h57

Ça va de soit qu'il est toujours exclus. Après tout, on l'a moulé à notre image. ;)

persianrider

11/05/2004, 23h11

pfff id keep stock mags and stock everything lol ... tint and everything else under the hood lol ...