Sway bars VS Strut bars

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mathieums

mathieums

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J'aimerais avoir des infos sur les sway et strut bars

Des explications aussi

Over-steer??
under-steer??

Mettre les deux??

HELPP!!!
 
Voici quelque chose que j'ai posté sur un autre forum récemment... J'espère que ça va t'aider à choisir ce qui te convient.

Tiré de ClubEchoQuebec.com said:
1. Anti-Roulis = Sway Bar = Roll Bar = Barre Stabilisatrice
Barre qui relie la portion mobile des deux côtés de la suspension arrière ou avant d'une voiture. La barre utilise un levier "fixe" sur la voiture (les attaches au centre dans le cas d'une barre arrière) pour forcer les deux côtés à bouger simultanément.

Dans la vraie vie, ça donne une résistance au roulis accrue, dépendant de la rigidité de la barre. La résistance au roulis agis comme une réduction de la prise des pneus, ce qui change le comportement de la voiture pour la rendre plus survireuse dans le cas d'une barre arrière.

2. Stress Bar = Strut Bar = Frame Brace = Member Brace
Barre, ou assemblage de plusieurs pièces qui sont attachés aux parties fixes du châssis. En réduisant la torsion et déformation du châssis, ces barres permettent à la suspension de mieux faire son travail.

Dans la vraie vie, ça veut dire que si tu frappe une petite bosse de 1" de haut, et que le frame tord pour 1/2", et la suspension compresse pour 1/2", eh bien y'a seulement la moitié du mouvement qui est contrôlé par l'amortisseur... le 1/2" de mouvement du frame est pas contrôlé par rien lui. C'est ça qui rend une voiture instable quand le châssis flex beaucoup.

Sur une voiture de rue récente (pas une poubelle percée de rouille) avec des pneus de rue, ça fait pas grand différence une brace, peu importe ou elle est située. Quand tu installe une suspension de course avec des pneus cotés R, ça devient très important.
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Bon post Pascal
J'ajouterais qu'une Anti-Roll Bar fait comme elle dit , elle empeche le chassis de "roller"
Ya plusieur facon de tirer avantage d'une anti-roll bar , dans certaines série de course (formula ford je crois) ils n'ont pas le droit d'utiliser un limited slip differential à l'arriere , alors certaines équipes utilisent une barre plus "molle" pour mieux mettre le power a l'asphalte dans les sortie de virage , mais leur char a plus tendance a "roller"
 
trouver sa sur le net :

KONI WEBSITE said:
Over steer

Over steer is when the rear wheels are carving a larger arc than the front wheels or the intended line of the turn. Rear "slip angles" exceed those of the front tires. This is often described as a "loose" condition, as the car feels like it may swap ends, or be "twitchy."
This condition can be caused by "power over steer", where you need to reduce power in order to bring the back end back into line.



Under steer

Under steer is when the front wheels are carving a larger arc than the rear wheels. This is often described as "push" or "pushing" - as the front end feels like it is plowing off of a corner.
Further acceleration only compounds the push, as weight shifts back to the rear drive wheels off of the front turning wheels, leading to a further lessening of the car's ability to turn in.
Under steer can be remedied by slight modulation in throttle to transfer weight forward to the front wheels, aiding their traction and ability to carve the turn.
Many cars are designed to have a tendency to under steer. If the driver gets uncomfortable and "lifts" off the gas, that will cause the front end to tighten the curve - a relatively safer, and more predictable condition.

When the car's body leans in a corner, the outside suspension compresses and the inside suspension extends. In other words, the outside suspension moves in bump direction and the inside suspension moves in rebound direction




Tuning Tips

If the car rolls on the rear outside suspension during corner exit, increase rebound damping force at the front inside. The front inside suspension affects the car mostly on corner exit. By adding rebound damping you will loosen the car up on corner exit.

If the car rolls on the front outside during corner entry, increase rebound damping on the rear inside suspension.

By adding rebound damping to the front on both sides equally, it will tighten the car some.
By adding rebound damping to the rear on both sides equally, it will loosen the car up some.

Note that the shock absorbers do not change the amount of weight transfer, only the time it takes to transfer this weight.

Only adjust enough rebound into each shock absorber to eliminate the undesirable characteristic. Adjusting too much rebound may mask a handling problem of another sort and may even be make things worse and dangerous.
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Suspension tuning is not a thing for newbies ...
too much things come into consideration , roll center , weight distribution , type of coils/shocks/antiroll bar setting , type of tires , type of suspension (mcpherson/double wishbone/multilink...) , camber , caster , toe ...
And im missing a lot of stuff like weight transfer during acceleration/turning etc etc
Tuning a car suspension takes a LOT of time , a lot of communication or a good knowledge of car dynamics ...
i don't consider myself as being able to give a fine tune to a suspension and i may add that the people on MR who can do it right are as rare as pinguins in the sahara desert
 
200sxBoY said:
Suspension tuning is not a thing for newbies ...
too much things come into consideration , roll center , weight distribution , type of coils/shocks/antiroll bar setting , type of tires , type of suspension (mcpherson/double wishbone/multilink...) , camber , caster , toe ...
And im missing a lot of stuff like weight transfer during acceleration/turning etc etc
Tuning a car suspension takes a LOT of time , a lot of communication or a good knowledge of car dynamics ...
i don't consider myself as being able to give a fine tune to a suspension and i may add that the people on MR who can do it right are as rare as pinguins in the sahara desert
Click to expand...
Je cherche pas a avoir une suspension qui utilise 115% de son efficacité...

Je veux juste de l'aide pour un setup de street interessant...
 
mathieums said:
Je cherche pas a avoir une suspension qui utilise 115% de son efficacité...

Je veux juste de l'aide pour un setup de street interessant...
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Alors si tu veut de l'aide , la meilleur place a aller est a un speedshop *tu*
installe toi des shock ajustable (koni de préférence) avec des spring avec un bon rate (prend les conseils de personne qui ont un char comme le tient et qui course/lap avec) et ensuite va faire tuner sa ;)
 
je pense que le plus simple c :

koni yellow (ou red si j'en trouve)

eibach sportline (1.7" drop front and 2.3" drop rear)

eibach front & rear sway bar kit

Reste juste a trouver une shop qui pourrait mavoir sa... et l'argent pour les acheters!
 
Chu dropé 1.4 pouce et c'est presque trop ! J'ai un ami qui était avec le sportline et c'était complétement débile ... avec nos route je te conseil pas une trop grande drop a moin que tu aime grinder l'asphalt ...

Je te dirait de prendre le prokit ... A moin que tu ait de belle route vaudreuil, cela me surprendrai !


Mais la toi tes pas tané de changer d'idee ? Je swap un gtp, je swap un moteur de saab, je swap un ecotec 2.2 turbo je swap ma mere dans le enginebay avec des pedale apres sa ?

Et la tu est a la suspension ...

En tk j'ai hate que tu te decide a faire de quoi !! Et c'est mieux d'avancer ;)

Au moin tu t'informe a fond a place de faire des connerie !
 
NXC Racing said:
Chu dropé 1.4 pouce et c'est presque trop ! J'ai un ami qui était avec le sportline et c'était complétement débile ... avec nos route je te conseil pas une trop grande drop a moin que tu aime grinder l'asphalt ...

Je te dirait de prendre le prokit ... A moin que tu ait de belle route vaudreuil, cela me surprendrai !


Mais la toi tes pas tané de changer d'idee ? Je swap un gtp, je swap un moteur de saab, je swap un ecotec 2.2 turbo je swap ma mere dans le enginebay avec des pedale apres sa ?

Et la tu est a la suspension ...

En tk j'ai hate que tu te decide a faire de quoi !! Et c'est mieux d'avancer ;)

Au moin tu t'informe a fond a place de faire des connerie !
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LOL

Justement... j'avais penser a mettre ma mere dans ... :laugh:

J'ai toujours l'idée de modifier ma cavalier... L'idée est plus forte que jamais... Je me suis rendu compte que a peut pres tous se que je c concerne les j-body...

C juste que je me cherche de koi a faire c temps site...

Mais la cavalier a reste, sa c sur... Pas perdu une année de ma vie a la dorloté, pis l'étudier pour rien...

dorloté... c a revoir... mais tk...
 
200sxBoY said:
Suspension tuning is not a thing for newbies ...
too much things come into consideration , roll center , weight distribution , type of coils/shocks/antiroll bar setting , type of tires , type of suspension (mcpherson/double wishbone/multilink...) , camber , caster , toe ...
And im missing a lot of stuff like weight transfer during acceleration/turning etc etc
Tuning a car suspension takes a LOT of time , a lot of communication or a good knowledge of car dynamics ...
Click to expand...
That may be true, but you have to remember that 99.999% of the people on this board are driving street cars. That means the range of suspension tuning options they have is VERY limited. Sure, suspension tuning is tricky when you have fully adjustible dampers, a choice of spring rates, adjustible sways front & rear, plus camber/castor/toe adjustments on all 4 corners. But when you have a basically stock street car and the ONLY suspension tuning available to you is choosing between one of 3 settings for your rear swaybar...then that's not really as complicated as you might think.

The main thing that gets people into trouble is that they read about how to tune racecars and assume that the same things will work for a streetcar. There is a WORLD of difference between a stiffly-sprung racecar (which exhibits practially no camber change under lateral load) and a wallowy street car with tons of body roll (hence, lots of dynamic camber change). Sometimes things will have the exact opposite effect in a streetcar compared to a racecar.

Emre
 
LanEvo said:
That may be true, but you have to remember that 99.999% of the people on this board are driving street cars. That means the range of suspension tuning options they have is VERY limited. Sure, suspension tuning is tricky when you have fully adjustible dampers, a choice of spring rates, adjustible sways front & rear, plus camber/castor/toe adjustments on all 4 corners. But when you have a basically stock street car and the ONLY suspension tuning available to you is choosing between one of 3 settings for your rear swaybar...then that's not really as complicated as you might think.

The main thing that gets people into trouble is that they read about how to tune racecars and assume that the same things will work for a streetcar. There is a WORLD of difference between a stiffly-sprung racecar (which exhibits practially no camber change under lateral load) and a wallowy street car with tons of body roll (hence, lots of dynamic camber change). Sometimes things will have the exact opposite effect in a streetcar compared to a racecar.

Emre
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so true, engineering for race cars means dick for streetcars ... two completely different entities. only aspects that can be implmented would be engine and exhaust ... other then that, body / chassis / suspension / weight / etc are all different
 
i know that it is different , basicly race car use wishbone 3 to 4 times longer then a street car and have roll point/weight distribution and really diffenrent stuff from street car
But the fact is , body roll is body roll , even if it's a street car or a f1
*Il try not to mess up on this one but it's been a long time since i readed and worked on suspensions*
The same theory for the anti-roll bar exists on the street car , if your anti-roll bar is stiffer , you get less roll that's for sure but the effect is always the same , less weight on the outside wheel ... with a lsd this isn't much of a problem but on open diff car (which 80% of mr members owns) it's harder to put the power to the ground
 
any usefull information on arm bushing would be appriciated ;)

thx

edit:

And where can I find eibach products around montreal ... West Island??

thx again :)
 
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