Muffler ticket --> got one. Article 258 Sit. 11 PR VR what is it?
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mk2-2jz
New member
thanks you guys, but yeah it was a muffler ticket, I just wanted to know what section it was
I'm going to write a novel here, if you dont want to read it dont, just dont post saying that I wasted your time, I warned you in advance, thanks.
Funny story, really.
I'm at hooters about an hour ago checking out the show. I go to leave, pull out of the parking lot, and bam right there at the exit is the bugendy red undercover taurus that hangs around riverside giving speeding tickets. So of course I see him too late. I'm like ok get ready for a ticket, sure enough I put it into first and pull out of the parking, sliding the clutch to get it to take off at low rpm, shift into second at really low rpm, I crawl like 30 feet out of the parking and the cop gets next to me on the shoulder and sticks his arm out the window to get me to pull over. I can still see hooters from where I am, then 2 second later as the cops get out of the car he flags down a really nice harley comming from the show. So here we are 2 of us on the side of the road.
I knew I was getting a ticket, Supra + stainless muffler, it was bound to happen. You know your getting a ticket when the cop gets out of his car with a coat hanger and a measuring tape (can they do this?)
The best, he walks up to my window and says in french "do you know that your muffler is not conforming" I said "no I didnt realize". So he looks at me funny and goes "but this is a really nice model anyways, very clean" I go "thanks I try", I get out of the car and walk to the back. I said "This muffler closly resembles the stock one, its the same length and width." He goes "is it straight through". I said "yes it is, but my original 85 muffler was straight through and I changed it for this one because it was finished, I wouldnt do something that I knew was illegal". He goes "just because its stainless it means that it doesnt resemble the original" So I go jokingly, "yeah well I bought something nicer instead" He laughs.... Then he goes "if I check the muffler will I find it to be non conforming" I said "yeah like I just said, I changed my stock straight thorough for this one" He bends down and sticks his flashlight in "oh bien oui" then he puts in his measuring tape "24 pouces" I'm looking at him like wow what a joke.
Then when he got back up, I said well while were on the topic can I ask you a couple questions? I was very polite this whole time, but I got my point across. So he goes "yeah you can". I ask "you said that you pulled me over because you could 'hear' my muffler" he nods. Then I asked "is there a law in quebec that states a decibel rating for a motor vehicle" he goes "no there isnt but just the fact that I could hear your muffler makes it illegal" I go "ok do you know the noise level of this model year of car" he goes "no I dont but the muffler doesnt resemble the stock muffler so thats what makes it illegal" he points out again that its stainless. So I go, "well what do I do to get a stock 85 Supra muffler, you must know that they are non production" He goes, "yeah I know if you do find one it would be expensive" I go "if I find one, its not worth it to buy oem because I need a turbo muffler for when I swap my engine" He looks at me again and then says "you should have bought one with a chamber, look at the STI, its loud but its chambered" so I got confused for a minute because he pulled me over because he could 'hear' my exhaust but not because it was straight though. And he goes "the sti is a twin tip" Then I go "yeah ok that doesnt mean that its not straight through because it has a twin tip" He goes "ah bien" So I was like, ok thanks and I went to talk to the biker.
He told me that he got his bike inspected by the SAAQ and it passed and he gets pulled over about 10 times a year about it, $150 ticket every time and he contests them.
I was like wow with this whole situation.
/rant.
I'm going to write a novel here, if you dont want to read it dont, just dont post saying that I wasted your time, I warned you in advance, thanks.
Funny story, really.
I'm at hooters about an hour ago checking out the show. I go to leave, pull out of the parking lot, and bam right there at the exit is the bugendy red undercover taurus that hangs around riverside giving speeding tickets. So of course I see him too late. I'm like ok get ready for a ticket, sure enough I put it into first and pull out of the parking, sliding the clutch to get it to take off at low rpm, shift into second at really low rpm, I crawl like 30 feet out of the parking and the cop gets next to me on the shoulder and sticks his arm out the window to get me to pull over. I can still see hooters from where I am, then 2 second later as the cops get out of the car he flags down a really nice harley comming from the show. So here we are 2 of us on the side of the road.
I knew I was getting a ticket, Supra + stainless muffler, it was bound to happen. You know your getting a ticket when the cop gets out of his car with a coat hanger and a measuring tape (can they do this?)
The best, he walks up to my window and says in french "do you know that your muffler is not conforming" I said "no I didnt realize". So he looks at me funny and goes "but this is a really nice model anyways, very clean" I go "thanks I try", I get out of the car and walk to the back. I said "This muffler closly resembles the stock one, its the same length and width." He goes "is it straight through". I said "yes it is, but my original 85 muffler was straight through and I changed it for this one because it was finished, I wouldnt do something that I knew was illegal". He goes "just because its stainless it means that it doesnt resemble the original" So I go jokingly, "yeah well I bought something nicer instead" He laughs.... Then he goes "if I check the muffler will I find it to be non conforming" I said "yeah like I just said, I changed my stock straight thorough for this one" He bends down and sticks his flashlight in "oh bien oui" then he puts in his measuring tape "24 pouces" I'm looking at him like wow what a joke.
Then when he got back up, I said well while were on the topic can I ask you a couple questions? I was very polite this whole time, but I got my point across. So he goes "yeah you can". I ask "you said that you pulled me over because you could 'hear' my muffler" he nods. Then I asked "is there a law in quebec that states a decibel rating for a motor vehicle" he goes "no there isnt but just the fact that I could hear your muffler makes it illegal" I go "ok do you know the noise level of this model year of car" he goes "no I dont but the muffler doesnt resemble the stock muffler so thats what makes it illegal" he points out again that its stainless. So I go, "well what do I do to get a stock 85 Supra muffler, you must know that they are non production" He goes, "yeah I know if you do find one it would be expensive" I go "if I find one, its not worth it to buy oem because I need a turbo muffler for when I swap my engine" He looks at me again and then says "you should have bought one with a chamber, look at the STI, its loud but its chambered" so I got confused for a minute because he pulled me over because he could 'hear' my exhaust but not because it was straight though. And he goes "the sti is a twin tip" Then I go "yeah ok that doesnt mean that its not straight through because it has a twin tip" He goes "ah bien" So I was like, ok thanks and I went to talk to the biker.
He told me that he got his bike inspected by the SAAQ and it passed and he gets pulled over about 10 times a year about it, $150 ticket every time and he contests them.
I was like wow with this whole situation.
/rant.
Last edited:
Guimbarde K
New member
contest the ticket.
obviously the cop doesn't know what he's talking about.
Get the ''divulgation de la preuve'' from city court, and check what he wrote.
Your muffler has the same spec as the original (straight through) and the cop has no way of knowing the level of the original car.
Try to get some written proof (by toyota or sthing) that your original muffler was straight.
We need to put an end to this madness. Art. 91 of the CSR isn't enough by itself to justify a ticket because it relates to a repair on the original part, as it was built, but since you replaced it, obviously it doesn't apply. And by art. 94, he doesn't have enough knowledge to prove by his ear that your car is louder than the original.
Get yourself a good defense, and contest it, you have strong chances if you look convincing and take time to write it.
And then people can use you clause to defend their tickets.
mk2-2jz
New member
I have the original muffler in my garage, I figured that I would keep it just in case. I put a stick in it and it goes right through to the other end. I can bring it and put it on the table in front of the judge. I'll go to Toyota too this week and speak to one of the mechanics about it too.
I also found a piece of "broche" jammed in the pipe from a while ago, it looks like it had already been inspected to see if it was straight through, guess what? The broche made it all the way through before it got stuck.
Do you believe that this is contestable?
I also found a piece of "broche" jammed in the pipe from a while ago, it looks like it had already been inspected to see if it was straight through, guess what? The broche made it all the way through before it got stuck.
Do you believe that this is contestable?
Guimbarde K
New member
100%
the only proof the cop has is his tape going 24 inches in the exhaust, prove him it goes 24 inches in the original one, and you won.
Insist on the fact that he has no way of knowing if your actual muffler is louder than the original one since he probably never heard one.
Guimbarde K
New member
i'm no lawyer or judge though.
but if you prepare yourself right and you show them clearly the FACTS, you have very strong odds for you.
I know i would contest it eyes closed....
we're not talking about a '95 civic with a fartcan here...
but if you prepare yourself right and you show them clearly the FACTS, you have very strong odds for you.
I know i would contest it eyes closed....
we're not talking about a '95 civic with a fartcan here...
Matt01
New member
i fixed it for you...
Guimbarde K
New member
^^^ the damn cop had the audacity to tell me he liked my car too, its not like its a POS. He goes "you know that you have a non conform muffler, but this is a nice model anyways, what year is it?"
come on does this look bad to you people and merit a ticket?
as the cop told you, he can hear it so it's illegal.
Same goes for MS3, SRT4, STI, etc etc etc.
These guys really know their stuff don't they!!
mk2-2jz
New member
can I have some police input on this situation?
I will take a video of me putting the measuring tape in the original muffler when I get a chance, then you guys can tell me my chances if I were to do it in court. The cop said 24 inches, I measured my magnaflow and its a little bit less than that, but you cant really tell because it flows right through to the exhaust pipe. My magnaflow is the same body length as the original, overall, but is a tiny big less (2 inches) on the inside length. The original measures 24 inches from the end of the tip to the end of the casing on the inside. Does this make much of a difference? The muffler is installed correctly and is the same size as the original. I purchased this muffler with the intentions of conforming. I know I brought it upon myself by buying an obvious straight through, but my original exhaust is straight.
If I can get the dealer to also prove to me that they cannot get an exact OEM replacement for my muffler, only a universal, will this help? Also If I can get the dealer to confirm that the original exhaust has straight through properties? I mean you cant see light from one end to the other, but the tape goes all the way in, its also a twin tip and they split in the middle of the muffler body, 1 hole goes straight through, the other is attached to the straight tube in the middle.
I will take a video of me putting the measuring tape in the original muffler when I get a chance, then you guys can tell me my chances if I were to do it in court. The cop said 24 inches, I measured my magnaflow and its a little bit less than that, but you cant really tell because it flows right through to the exhaust pipe. My magnaflow is the same body length as the original, overall, but is a tiny big less (2 inches) on the inside length. The original measures 24 inches from the end of the tip to the end of the casing on the inside. Does this make much of a difference? The muffler is installed correctly and is the same size as the original. I purchased this muffler with the intentions of conforming. I know I brought it upon myself by buying an obvious straight through, but my original exhaust is straight.
If I can get the dealer to also prove to me that they cannot get an exact OEM replacement for my muffler, only a universal, will this help? Also If I can get the dealer to confirm that the original exhaust has straight through properties? I mean you cant see light from one end to the other, but the tape goes all the way in, its also a twin tip and they split in the middle of the muffler body, 1 hole goes straight through, the other is attached to the straight tube in the middle.
NiGhTRiDeR_Si
Legacy Member
measuring tape goes 23" in my stock type r exhaust... does that make it illegal ?
NiGhTRiDeR_Si
Legacy Member
hahah sorry bud, id assume if you do all that work going to the dealer and taking detailed photos aswell as missing a day of work you deserve to win. Id personally pay the damn ticket and avoid the hassle but that mainly cause i cant afford to miss work.
GoodLuck!
GoodLuck!
mk2-2jz
New member
^^^ Im on summer break from school 
I have some time to waste. If I can build my case I'm going to go to court as a service to the community. And If I win its another case against the CSR and the police. I am also going to ask if the judge can write me something that says that I have already been proven innocent for this "offense", so I can use that on the next cop that stops me. I dont believe that I can be ticketed again legally if I win in court, that wouldnt make sense.
I have some time to waste. If I can build my case I'm going to go to court as a service to the community. And If I win its another case against the CSR and the police. I am also going to ask if the judge can write me something that says that I have already been proven innocent for this "offense", so I can use that on the next cop that stops me. I dont believe that I can be ticketed again legally if I win in court, that wouldnt make sense.
ZEDS
New member
according to that police .... a porches gt3 rs his illegal .... a caliber str4 is illegal .....
it make no sens ....
if i fart loud in front of a police am i illegal ?
mk2-2jz
New member
^^^^ I know, hence the problem. Manu, read my chunk I wrote up there, he didnt give me very good answers to my questions. I asked "is there a decibel law in the CSR" he goes "no there isnt but the muffler does not resemble the original, its stainless" I was like "ok well then why did you say you could hear it, that does not constitute it being illegal according to the CSR?"
he got me with article 258 "vehicule muni dune system d'echapment non conforme" its nice how CLEAR that is. Why is it non conforme?? What happens if I hang a stock muffler and then have a straight pipe exiting the header, that makes it legal? If anything I should get a ticket for disturbing the peace if its so loud. In first gear at 1500 rpm leaving a parking lot.
he got me with article 258 "vehicule muni dune system d'echapment non conforme" its nice how CLEAR that is. Why is it non conforme?? What happens if I hang a stock muffler and then have a straight pipe exiting the header, that makes it legal? If anything I should get a ticket for disturbing the peace if its so loud. In first gear at 1500 rpm leaving a parking lot.
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