Got pulled over for XL turbo exhaust(*UPDATE again**-went to court vs Mr.Blouin..pg4)

ok so i have a 96 civic hatch with a fully built d16 turboed at 20psi making 350whp. The exhaust system i used to have was a magnaflow striaght pipe, but i got pulled over in front of my school about a month ago and issued a ticket.

I then did some research and found a 3 inch exhaust that people said was "legal". the Magnaflow Turbo XL. So i picked one up and installed it.

So this exhaust has 3 chambers and sound insulation. Now i was coming out of a Petro Canada after fueling and i was following my brother in his stock (mechanically) 96 civic. I saw the cop and i had to stop beside him at the light and then take off...so of course i took off slowly and the cop did not follow me

I kept my eyes in the rear veiw and then sure enough what do i see coming at full speed...a the cop car...he brakes hard beside me, pulls down his window and practically sticks his head out to listen to my exhaust....of course by this time ive clutched in so the car is making no noise

yet he stills decides to pull me over. So ill cut to the chase

basically they took 15 min to try and get somethign to go through my exhaust cause they were convinced it was a straight pipe. they tried their "broche" first, then a measuring tape, then a stick they found on the side of the road

when all of that didnt work, they went into their car and took apart a coat hanger and tried that....again didnt work lol

by this time the guy was very fustrated and was being extremely rude to me. He then decided to take measurments of my exhaust and pictures.

So he wrote me up a ticket under:

article: 258
situation 11
"proprietaire d'un vehicule routier non muni d'un system d'echapement conforme aux normes (decret 1483-98 art.94)"

he then told me that "according to him my exhaust was not legal because it didnt say HONDA on it and because it didnt have any chambers in it" AHAHAHHAHAH lol....what and idiot lol.

he also told me that my brothers car was 10x quiter then mine....ya well no shit...he has 50hp and i have close to 400 lol

and then the idiot tells me that i was obviously guilty of having an illegal exhaust because I wasnt even on the gas when i heard saw him behind me....no shit, what do you expect me to do....hit boost and run away lol

after arguing with him for awhile, he told me that if i wasnt happy with it that i could contest it and that they would send their "expert" (lol) in court to take care of me...I guessing this is the guy known as Mr.Blouin

Now what i want to know is how can i win this. I want to win against the mr. Blouin fagget and show him that he knows shit all...This is getting rediculous.

I am EXTREMELY knowledable in mechanics, and i have friends who are both mechanical engineers and certified mechanics. What can i do to win this ticket in court

sorry for the novel lol

^^ if thats true you made me a happy man

can anyone else back that up?

Soit préparé parce que l'expert va probablement te ramasser à cause que tu as posé un exhaust différent de celui d'origine. As-tu une photo de ton exhaust? Norlement, une Civic comme la tienne, ça à un exhaust gros comme une paille, si tu as un 3'' ben...lol.

patrickd_21 said:

^^ if thats true you made me a happy man

can anyone else back that up?

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94. No component of the exhaust system shall be replaced, modified or removed so as to cause the system to be noisier than the one originally installed by the manufacturer on the road vehicle.

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He'll probably base it on the fact that you were with your brother with a Civic and that he could compare both side by side. You can just say you're turbo'ed and making about 5 times the power and that the noise he heard wasn't the exhaust system, it was from the turbine and engine.

Contest and then write in to get the entire report and proof sent to you so that you can prepare a counter argument.

I think it's funny how much FFracer pleads that they are being fair with exhausts and that we just exagerate when it's obvious harassement from the SPVM.

Twon said:

Soit préparé parce que l'expert va probablement te ramasser à cause que tu as posé un exhaust différent de celui d'origine. As-tu une photo de ton exhaust? Norlement, une Civic comme la tienne, ça à un exhaust gros comme une paille, si tu as un 3'' ben...lol.

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this is my exhaust...probably the most unnoticable thing in the world

i think you should bring along a sample of the same model muffler for the expert to verify in front of the judge.

take pics of yours on the car with the part numbers etc... and bring that same one so they cannot say it is two different mufflers.
lol

Unless you installed a cat along with your XL turbo exhaust, your car isn't any more legal than it used to be when you had a free flow magnaflow muffler. I know why you're not running a cat and it's fine by me. But when you choose power above all, you must be aware of the risks you take.

The officer that stopped you didnt have the expertise to assess your exhaust system correctly and might have given you a ticket for the wrong reason. But at the end of the day, you and I know your exhaust isn't legal.

258. Tout véhicule automobile doit être muni d'un système d'échappement conforme aux normes établies par règlement.

1986, c. 91, a. 258.

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all theCSR it says is that your exhaust doesnt meet the norms from the
Règlement sur les normes de sécurité des véhicules routiers art. 91 to 94

Système d'échappement

91. Le système d'échappement doit comporter ses éléments notamment de collecteur, les tuyaux, le silencieux, les supports et les attaches.

Les éléments du système d'échappement doivent être solidement retenus aux points de fixation et aucun élément ne doit présenter de fuite de gaz aux raccords ou provenant de fissures ou de trous autres que ceux prévus lors de la fabrication du système d'échappement pour l'évacuation de la condensation par le fabricant du système d'échappement.

Toute réparation sur l'un de ces éléments doit lui conserver les mêmes caractéristiques que celles existant lors de sa fabrication.

D. 1483-98, a. 91.

92. Aucun élément du système d'échappement ne doit passer à moins de 50 mm d'un autre élément, tels une pièce en matériau combustible, un fil électrique, une canalisation de carburant ou de frein ou un réservoir de carburant, qui n'est pas protégé par un écran approprié contre la chaleur. Dans le cas des canalisations de carburant sous pression, de types GNC et PGL, cette distance minimale doit être de 150 mm.

De plus, aucune matière inflammable ne doit dégoutter sur un élément du système d'échappement.

D. 1483-98, a. 92.

93. Lorsqu'un élément du système d'échappement est localisé à proximité d'une porte d'accès de l'habitacle, cet élément doit être recouvert d'une structure protectrice s'il y a un risque de brûlure pour la personne qui y a accès.

D. 1483-98, a. 93.

94. Aucun élément du système d'échappement ne doit être remplacé, modifié ou enlevé de manière à rendre le système plus bruyant que celui installé lors de la fabrication du véhicule routier par le fabricant.

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The way I see it, you car does not conform to article 94 because it's missing a component (catalytic converter) that was present when the car rolled off the assembly line.

If I were you, I'd be more concerned about whoever is their expert witness noticing you're running catless, or getting caught lying in court than actually saving this particular ticket.

Keep in mind I'm just trying to help. I'm not a cop and wouldn't waste as much time linking and quoting stuff if all I wanted was to bring you down. feel free to completely disregard this post if you installed a cat lately.

kahos said:

all theCSR it says is that your exhaust doesnt meet the norms from the
Règlement sur les normes de sécurité des véhicules routiers art. 91 to 94

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It's 91 to 95 that covers exhaust systems.

Look closely at what he wrote, his ticket is for article 94 because the officer couldn't establish he had a freeflow exhaust.

Even if it's not a free-flow it doesn't mean that it's legal.... and I don't know who told you that a XL muffler is legal, but it's not me.

RedKTeg97 said:

It's 91 to 95 that covers exhaust systems.

Look closely at what he wrote, his ticket is for article 94 because the officer couldn't establish he had a freeflow exhaust.

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I did and I understand the officer was misled when he issued that ticket. He doesnt have a freeflow but that doesnt make his exhaust legal because it's still missing a cat. Article 94 strikes again.

To get a ticket for a wrong reason is one thing and it sucks, but to go in court and say under oath that this ticket is unwaranted when you know for a fact that you do not meet said regulation is another thing IMO. One is an unfortunate error, the other is fraud or perjury. Call it what you will.

kahos said:

I did and I understand the officer was misled when he issued that ticket. He doesnt have a freeflow but that doesnt make his exhaust legal because it's still missing a cat. Article 94 strikes again.

To get a ticket for a wrong reason is one thing and it sucks, but to go in court and say under oath that this ticket is unwaranted when you know for a fact that you do not meet said regulation is another thing IMO. One is an unfortunate error, the other is fraud or perjury. Call it what you will.

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He doesn't have to testify that his muffler is legal is all shapes and forms. Article 94 deals with a muffler being louder than original. Without a decibel reading no one can say this muffler is louder than original or not. No lying going on.

JDMskyline.com said:

where did this happen?

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route 132 on the south shore going towards the mercier bridge. I was pulled over in front of the old orange julep that they took down. The cop first saw me at the light at the petro canada.

kahos said:

Unless you installed a cat along with your XL turbo exhaust, your car isn't any more legal than it used to be when you had a free flow magnaflow muffler. I know why you're not running a cat and it's fine by me. But when you choose power above all, you must be aware of the risks you take.

The officer that stopped you didnt have the expertise to assess your exhaust system correctly and might have given you a ticket for the wrong reason. But at the end of the day, you and I know your exhaust isn't legal.



all theCSR it says is that your exhaust doesnt meet the norms from the
Règlement sur les normes de sécurité des véhicules routiers art. 91 to 94


The way I see it, you car does not conform to article 94 because it's missing a component (catalytic converter) that was present when the car rolled off the assembly line.

If I were you, I'd be more concerned about whoever is their expert witness noticing you're running catless, or getting caught lying in court than actually saving this particular ticket.

Keep in mind I'm just trying to help. I'm not a cop and wouldn't waste as much time linking and quoting stuff if all I wanted was to bring you down. feel free to completely disregard this post if you installed a cat lately.

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Thank you for taking the time to help me but the reason the police officer issued me a ticket is because he believed that my exhaust was too loud. It has nothing to do with me having a cat or not.

RedKTeg97 said:

It's 91 to 95 that covers exhaust systems.

Look closely at what he wrote, his ticket is for article 94 because the officer couldn't establish he had a freeflow exhaust.

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FF Racer said:

Even if it's not a free-flow it doesn't mean that it's legal.... and I don't know who told you that a XL muffler is legal, but it's not me.

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a police officer told JDMskyline that this exhaust was legal...there is a whole thread on this and your in it lol...its a matter of interpretation

kahos said:

I did and I understand the officer was misled when he issued that ticket. He doesnt have a freeflow but that doesnt make his exhaust legal because it's still missing a cat. Article 94 strikes again.

To get a ticket for a wrong reason is one thing and it sucks, but to go in court and say under oath that this ticket is unwaranted when you know for a fact that you do not meet said regulation is another thing IMO. One is an unfortunate error, the other is fraud or perjury. Call it what you will.

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but again there reason for interception was not because the officer believed i didnt have a cat....its because he believed that my muffler was too loud

StraightSix said:

He doesn't have to testify that his muffler is legal is all shapes and forms. Article 94 deals with a muffler being louder than original. Without a decibel reading no one can say this muffler is louder than original or not. No lying going on.

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x2....and thanks alot for the pm


and thanks alot to everyone helping me in this thread. I appreciate it ALOT from both sides of the argument. I just really want to be prepared for this court date:bigup:

FF Racer said:

Even if it's not a free-flow it doesn't mean that it's legal.... and I don't know who told you that a XL muffler is legal, but it's not me.

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look at the picture of is car the muffler look stock men come on,looks like he buy one from the auto part this is to much.

that will NEVER happen

what do you guys thing of making a straight pipe from the header to the rear of the car and end it like that, Im going to get a ticket no matter what I do, might as well profit right? I could literally just go and buy 12 feet of 2.5" pipe and hang it under my car, it has almost no bends and doesnt go up over the diff.

Do you think that they would still nail me with infraction 258?

haha doesn't say Honda on it. For fun take a marker and scribble Honda on it.

So by his logic all jobber mufflers sold at auto parts stores are illegal.

If you read court sentences and what is told/evaluated, you realise that the only arguments considered by the judge are the basic internals of the muffler and the size of the piping. You only have to prove to the judge that you respect both of those and you will win any tickets given for the 91 article. Now since the police officer failed to prove you didn't have internal barriers, he can't use that argument agains't you. As for the size of the piping, it depends what the police officer mesured exactly. It's easy to throw off the judge by saying the internal piping is the same as the original muffler and the only part that the officer mesured is the tip, which is just a decoration since it has no "sound dampening use".

That's why the turbo XL is theoraticaly legal. The evidence collected by police officers can't prove without any doubt that it dosn't respect OEM caracteristics and therefore is compliant with the article 91.

But like you mentionned, you were apparently ticketed for article 94 which has nothing to do with OEM caracteristics, only noise. If the police officer didn't measure the noise level of your car and dosn't have a reference of what an OEM civic does, you should win this easely.

BTW, I would't bring pictures of your car if I were you. Just stick to the evidence on the table and explain how irrelevent it is and you should be fine!

mk2-1jz said:

what do you guys thing of making a straight pipe from the header to the rear of the car and end it like that, Im going to get a ticket no matter what I do, might as well profit right? I could literally just go and buy 12 feet of 2.5" pipe and hang it under my car, it has almost no bends and doesnt go up over the diff.

Do you think that they would still nail me with infraction 258?

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These were might thoughts exactly. If you're gonna get nailed no matter what, might aswell REALLY deserve it. Go out with guns blazin

kahos said:

I did and I understand the officer was misled when he issued that ticket. He doesnt have a freeflow but that doesnt make his exhaust legal because it's still missing a cat. Article 94 strikes again.

To get a ticket for a wrong reason is one thing and it sucks, but to go in court and say under oath that this ticket is unwaranted when you know for a fact that you do not meet said regulation is another thing IMO. One is an unfortunate error, the other is fraud or perjury. Call it what you will.

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No one is going to commit perjury. You don't have to admit things that aren't asked of you. If no one asks him about his cat, then he doesn't have to say a thing about it.

You'd make a very bad lawyer.

when i get a car im going to start screwing with the cops, im going to get the quietest muffler in existence, (make sure it says honda on it) cut it open, take all the sound insulation and the chambers out, except the one closest to the end so the stick wont go through, weld it back together, and wait for one of them to pull me over for an illegal muffler. hahaha what will they do, ticket me for noise pollution i guess.

the way things are going the cops are going to start handing out tickets because scooters sound like shit.