Another muffler Thread! This time I have REAL questions.

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DjSly

DjSly

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So I was driving today and this cop stops me for a verification. Give him my papers and he tells me that he will be inspectiong my exhaust.

He does his thing, mesures the dimensions, takes the name of my Cat-Back, stick test goes in 24inches deep.

Now, I know I have read the threads around and I know that it's not an easy cause for me.

So my exhaust is a Borla Cat-Back. I went to get on the net the info about my exhaust eventhough I already know it is free flow.

This is the info I was able to get straight from the site.

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Q. How does FLOW affect performance and sound?

BORLA exhaust systems’ patented, straight-through design increases exhaust gas velocity and moves more uninterrupted air through the engine. Since there are no restrictions, exhaust gases evacuate the cylinder completely, thereby allowing the new charge to come into the cylinder and create more power. The result is a larger volume of torque from the engine as well as an enhanced exhaust tonal quality.
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Ok so that won't help me out after Mr. the expert uses it agaisnt me.


The next quote shows why I decided to buy a performance exhaust :) (not that it is helpfull in any way)

Q. Will I get better gas mileage?

Yes, a better performing engine uses less fuel more efficiently, increasing fuel economy under normal cruising conditions. BORLA’s patented flow through design and proper diameter mandrel bent tubing evacuate the exhaust gases out the system much faster and at a much greater temperature than factory exhaust. This results in performance gains in HP when you plant your foot and fuel economy at cruising speeds. And, the bigger the vehicle, the bigger the engine, the bigger the load, the bigger the savings in fuel. That's why UPS delivery trucks are Borla-equipped!
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Again a raison why I bought it

Q. Why does it cost more?

The most commonly used metals in the manufacture of exhaust systems are rusty mild steel, aluminized steel or an inferior 400-series stainless. BORLA uses only high quality austenitic stainless steel. It costs more than the other lesser grades of steel. To cut, bend and hand weld this grade of stainless steel takes special equipment too. Ask your local muffler shop if they can make a smooth, precision mandrel bend in a 2.50" 201 or 304 Stainless Steel pipe for you. You won't find many that can, and it won't be cheap. We also focus heavily on research and development to assure that the system fits, performs and sounds better than any other system on the market. Add to this pressure testing, our Million-Mile Warranty and the years of race winning technology that go into the systems made at BORLA, and you will see why we have so many loyal, repeat customers. A BORLA is actually very cost effective when you take into account the fact that most exhaust systems will need replacement within 18 months to 4 years while a BORLA exhaust is designed to last the life of your vehicle.
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Now we get into sound.

Q. What does it sound like?

BORLA Cat Back™ systems have a deeper, throatier tone than stock. Our engineers take care in designing and tuning the systems with the mellow sound of power, aggressive yet elegant. Picture yourself driving down the road and turning up the bass on your stereo system but not changing the volume. That's what Borla sounds like!
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Combined with a decibel test to bring a number to court. Curently, my engine makes more noise then my muffler. What the cop told me was that he felt the low frequency vribrating in his car that's why he stop me.

What if I proove that the bass tone that my mufler generates is not capable of passing through car / house and when I say proove I mean the real deal. Research on the exact tone frenquency vs material properties.

Ok for the next quote I know we don't live in the US but it could still be an argument that the cat-back has pass some govermental tests.

If a dealer cannot void your garanty because of it's OEM spec, why would it be illegal to the eyes of the police ?

Q. Will it void my factory warranty?

NO. Some cars even have BORLA systems as the OEM exhaust. All of our street Cat-Backs™, Rear Sections and Mufflers are 50-state emissions legal. In fact, it is illegal for a dealer to deny you the OE warranty because you have changed the exhaust system.

If your vehicle manufacturer fails to honor emission/warranty claims, contact EPA at (202) 260-2080 or U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. If federal warranty protection is denied, contact the FTC at (202) 326-3128 or Federal Trade Commission - Home. For additional information, check out the following links:
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So I am charged with Article 258 "Propriétaire d'un véhicule non muni d'un système d'échappement conforme aux normes"

What is Codification ? It's written 51 in there ? Is that suppose to be 91 ?

So what are the normes, if the dealer is required to keep my waranty due to conformity to the OEM muffler , how do I have a non conforming system ?


Quotes are from : Borla Performance Industries - FAQs
 
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I know and I read it all over. it is just very frustrating to recieve a penalty because of an exhaust that is better then an OEM. That you pay 20-30% more compared to OEM for the simple fact that you qant quality.

It is made to last longer, help with gas consuption(very good with the currect price of the gas). I also understand that we are paying the price because of the fart cans out there.

What I still don't understand is why free flow muffler are illegal when they don't sound louder than stock. It's not like I installed a test pipe (removed my cat) and i'm poluting like crazy.

Some laws are simply irrealistic and innapropriate.
 
DjSly said:
What I still don't understand is why free flow muffler are illegal when they don't sound louder than stock. It's not like I installed a test pipe (removed my cat) and i'm poluting like crazy.
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There's nothing in the law about free-flow mufflers at all. They aren't illegal if you read the law as it is written.

That's where the Municipal court comes in. The prosecution made article 91, paragraph 3 say something it doesn't say. So now, replacing your muffler is equivalent to repairing your original muffler. And since you can't repair a component without keeping it's original caracteristics, then it's now illegal to replace your muffler with a free-flow one.

Yes, REPLACING means REPAIRING. You're not going to get a straight answer here, the cops are playing dumb because they're brainwashed into thinking it's right to profile and harass.
 
Hummm. I would not say the cops are brain washed.
But i would say that since they got so many complaints about mufflers, spécificly LOUD free flows, and that these same loud free flows tend to have a light right foot when they see a cop car near them, they target anything that looks like a free flow. Its zero tollerence. They see it they check it.
Sound is now irrelevent thanks to all those twits that installed fart cans.
But thats just my opnion.
 
Flagman101 said:
Hummm. I would not say the cops are brain washed.
But i would say that since they got so many complaints about mufflers, spécificly LOUD free flows, and that these same loud free flows tend to have a light right foot when they see a cop car near them, they target anything that looks like a free flow. Its zero tollerence. They see it they check it.
Sound is now irrelevent thanks to all those twits that installed fart cans.
But thats just my opnion.
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That's what they say. We have never seen any proof of these complaints, nor are the complaints themselves about free-flow mufflers, but if they do exist, they are about muffler noise in general.

This includes emptied out stock mufflers, rusted through mufflers, etc.. etc..

Free-flows per say are not loud. Some of them are, some of them aren't. Stop defending the cops, you know they are wrong in this.
 
I dont think they are wrong. They are doing there job.
I think that the law is wrong, and obsolete.
A loud exhaust is anoying, If i want to ear lourd engines i go to races. But the twit with emptied out muffler/loud free flow/ loud exhaust, i dont want to ear.
I'm sure there are complaints. I dont need proof of that.

Like you said some free flow are loud. Some are not.
We ( those that mod cars with a social conscience ) are paying for the loud ones because, lets be honest, a lot of peolple did actually install cheap fart cans.

Also if you check all my posts, i am not againts ticketing loud exhaust.
What i am againts is ticketing every free flows. Why should i get a ticket if my CIVIC is louder then a stock LX 2003 but not louder then a STOCK Mazda Speed or even not as loud as a STOCK Mustang or Corvette. These later cars a way louder then i was with a free flow.
That is not fair.

I have since installed a baffled type muffler, witch is still a bit louder then stock. But it's black and ugly. looks stock so i dont get targeted.

What i want is a law that actually targets irrresponsible tuners that installs cheap and loud mufflers and drive around thinking there are the hot thing.

A real DB law is the answer.
Until then they will give a ticket beacuse you are supposedly loud and the proof as nothing to do with sound.
 
Flagman101 said:
I dont think they are wrong. They are doing there job.
I think that the law is wrong, and obsolete
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The law isn't wrong at all. The law is clear and precise. You can't hollow out a catalyser or remove the internal baffles or chambers or glasspack from a muffler. That's what paragraph 3 says and stands for.

Replacing a muffler is not repairing a muffler. And yes the cops are wrong and they aren't doing their jobs. Their job is to enforce the LAW as written. Not find inventive ways of making it say what it doesn't say.
 
I wasa thinking of going to court, plead guilty to their charge since Yeah I do have a free-flow muffler. BUT what I want is to come in with string facts that shows that was I was accused of is simply non-sence.

I know , Im probably gonna end up paying 100$ more but if I can make the judge realized that hey, you are actually charging me with something that in the end doesn't bother anyone and doesn't affect anyone way's of living. (since I don't polute and I'm not loud).

Where does it have to go for them to start realizing that the law needs to be updated ?
 
DjSly said:
I wasa thinking of going to court, plead guilty to their charge since Yeah I do have a free-flow muffler. BUT what I want is to come in with string facts that shows that was I was accused of is simply non-sence.

I know , Im probably gonna end up paying 100$ more but if I can make the judge realized that hey, you are actually charging me with something that in the end doesn't bother anyone and doesn't affect anyone way's of living. (since I don't polute and I'm not loud).

Where does it have to go for them to start realizing that the law needs to be updated ?
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Waste of your time and money.
 
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