Why don't they make AWD Hondas?

Why aren't all cars AWD? It seems way better for launching as we can see from the DSM guys and Subaru guys. There doesn't seem to be any competition between FWD and AWD. Aside form the gas, what is the downside to AWD?

AWD vs FWD

Many things. First of all, I don't think Honda build the Civic to make them launch good on a track... Neither are Chrysler/Mitsubishi nor Subaru.

The AWD system on the Talon really is a strange decision from the company. Mitsubishi built this powertrain and drivtrain (first found in the Mitsubishi Galant VR-4) to compete in the WRC (World Rallye Cup). It's not by chance that the WRX and DSMs/Mitsubishi engines are just a hair shy of 2000cc. It's in the WRC rule book. For some reason, Chrysler and Mitsubishi tought it was a good idea to use the already available AWD drivetrain for its top of the line sports coupe. Don't forget that for Chrysler, the DSMs replaced the aging turbo Laser/Charger all based on the H and K-car.

Mitsubishi doesn't sell the 4G63/AWD package anymore in America. The new Eclipse is a FWD 3.0L V-6, something closer to a Pontiac GrandAm than the old DSMs. In the rest of the world, this turbo 4 and AWD system is still going strong in the Lancer Evolution though. Of course, it improved over time and this is why Mitsubishi is kicking everyone ass (including Subaru) with this truly excellent combo.

An AWD system just "happens" to be good for launching at the track. But there are disavantages to it.

- It adds more than 500 pounds to the car. It's one reasons DSMs are so HEAVY. Even in drag trim, they have a hard time making them lighter than 2500-2600 pounds because the drivetrain is so heavy.

- Parasitic loss. What helps for launching is just dead weight and power loss once you're moving. FWD steals about 6-8% from the engine to the wheels. AWD robs you of 20-25% to do the same thing. That's why our cars can get their butt kicked on the highway by cars that have much less power...

- Also, more parts means more things can go wrong

But I wouldn't trade my turbo 4 and AWD system for anything! With an AWD car, if you have a 12 seconds car at the track, you have a 12 second car anywhere!

Re: AWD vs FWD

I think this is why there is not that much competition for DSMs at the track right now.

FWD can be fast too!

They just need slicks ans some suspension work...

And really, we're not that fast! Well, we do brag a lot, but that little Precidia is way, WAY faster than any of us and it's FWD.

Also, I know of 3 Civics that are in the high 11's. Two of them are one pass wonders, but the other one is pretty reliable and it's a street car too! For the time being, I'm absolutly unable to run in the 11s, but guys can, in their FWD cars.

But on street tires? Well, our favorites preys are Rustangs and Craperos. The look on their face when they realize they got spanked by a 4 cylinder is priceless.

Re: FWD can be fast too!

Craperos, hahahaaha.

Re: FWD can be fast too!

The dsm's are cool cars but lets see how many runs you will do before your cv's start going or your head gaskets start to leak from to much boost ! I think you better consider that before you start calling certain cars Crapmaro or rustangs , these cars can run alot faster than 12's if they are modified I wish the import crowd would consider that instead of thinking that they are so hot because they invested a few thousand dollars inthere car to keep up with a bone stock V8!!!

Re: FWD can be fast too!

I like muscle cars alot as well. I think when people say they beat mustangs or whatever, they mean usually the arrogant types who like to race stock imports to show off their V8s. It's all in good fun though.

Re: FWD can be fast too!

It's too bad that Vw doesn't send us 4 motion vr6's like they get in europe! They even get 4 motion TDI's and 2.0l's! At least we have the option of installing it here!! I guess! Shipping may be a little much for 300 pounds of metal!

Re: FWD can be fast too!

I don't like awd because if you drive them hard the tranny will break and the clutch won't make it to 20 000Km.

I think V8s will always be the kings of the drag strip, meaning than if you put the same money both cars the V8 will be faster.

Re: FWD can be fast too!

hey buddy hows ur rice mower?So u run 12's?I'd like for u to show me this week.So u dont like the ass view of a mustang or camaro,well thats to bad cause thats all ur gonna see for a long time.U guys make me laugh with all ur lights and mufflers that u dont even know what the concept of exhausts are.Dont get me wrong my wife really enjoys her integra.Ifine their good for every day driving but thats it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


silvereagle

Ah, come on!

I'm just teasing! I have many, many friends who drive Stangs and Camaros. Some of them are faster, actually, some of them are *much* faster and some of them are slower...

You'd think that DSMs just fall apart going fast, eh? Well, I have about 1500 drag passes in the last 4 years (yep, 1500, not a typo) and so far...

- I rebuilt the tranny twice (weak syncros)
- 3 clutches
- 1 head gasket (26psi and lean can be bas for a *stock* gasket)

That's it. Original drivtrain, never broke anything under the car... Never left the track on a towing either.

Actually, the DSM engine is probably more reliable than a Supercharged Ford 302.

But the bottom end is, you'll break parts going fast, with any car. But the DSMs are no worse than the Camaro/Mustang... Technically, their drivetrain are somewhat weaker, but I guess that so far, I was lucky.

ricemobile

My car is NOT a rice mobile. Actually, apart from the mags (that I bought used for cheap) the car looks bone stock.

And what's so unbelievable about running low 12's? I didn't say I was running 10's. BTW, my friend runs 11.80 and is DSM isn't falling apart either...

Why is that anytime I tease a bit, I get angry replies? Ligthen up guys, life is too short to fight over such quibbles!!!

Re: ricemobile

MonOncTsi, what kind of car were you driving (racing) when you were in your early 20's?
Did it have lots of mods? just wondering.

Re: ricemobile

Slammed: Most of the guys with lights and mufflers are still in high school or Cegep. Eventually they will grow out of the rice phase as I did and become more aware of performance issues.

Early 20's

How do you know I'm so old?

In my early 20's, I drove a Turbo Colt. Bone stock, didn't even know what modding a car was.

I was driving like a bone head and nearly killed myself once or twice. I was racing anything and everything with wheels, from a moped to an 18 wheeler. I drove the crap out of that car and it never, ever let me down.

Back then, my "dream car" was a Mazda 323 GTX. I guess I always was a sucker for turbochargers and AWD!

Now, I respect the speed limit and I think street racing is a bad idea. What can I say, I'm old...

Re: Early 20's

MonOncTsi: Maybe I'm saying this about DSMs because one of my friend has a 92 Talon and in 2 years it cost him one engine, one tranny, one t. case,etc.

The worst is that he doesn't beet the hell out of it and the car only was 140 000Km certified.

DannyITR: I don't really agree with you, when I was in high school I had a 12s mustang that looked stock and I will never have a riced up car. Today I see the same guys who had their riced up 4 gen civic and they are still rice-boys.

Sure some wil be saved but most of them are lost from the start.

Re: Early 20's

Hey mononcTsi that last coment that says silvereagle ay the bottom is my friend who dosen't have auser name yet so hey used mine for a time only , if you run 12's he would be a good race for u !
SlammedSI.

Re: Early 20's

RWD.....like chickens with their heads cut off...right...rice boys for life!!

sure

This is childish, but hey!

I'll be at Napierville october the 8th with my DSM buddies. If he wants to race me then, sure. Just lose this angry attitude, I go there to have fun, OK?

LIGHTEN UP GUYS! What can I say, I do see a lot of Mustangs and F-Bodies in my rearview mirror at the drag strip. The truth is most of them are 13-14 sec. cars. And on the street, with AWD, you tend to run almost as good as you do on the track. RWD cars have a harder time on cold street tires.

All I'm saying is that for a 4 banger, DSMs can keep up OK with similarly modded Stangs or F-Bodies. They do have weaknesses I'll admit, but you can work around them.

Anyway, I'm tired of the flaming, this is my last post.

Re: sure

Awd is the bomb!! I would easily give up a little highway for Tons of traction! Why are Lamborghinis and porsche turbo's AWD?? Cause they are the best....All around!