finishing a basement. Question for the knowledgeable.

I've been working on rebuilding the basement but some stuff crossed my mind now.....

1) Does it change anything if I build my 2x4 walls on the subfloor or should I have directly built them on the concrete? and then the subfloor around it?

2) I applied a sheet of vapour barrier on the concrete slab and building the subfloor above that. Is that fine?

3) For insulation I applied blue extruded sytrofoam directly on the concrete walls, built the 2x4 wall direct on the sytrofoam sheets and used roxul between the 2x4 beams with an 8 inch gap of open space for humidity near the bottom.

What scares me is I didnt leave any gap behind the 2x4.... between the 2x4 beams and the blue styrofoam on the concrete wall. Am I gonna have any humidity problems in a few years?

Thanks MR.






edit:


here's a pic of how it stands now:







with the 2x4 beams practically stuck to the styrofoam.

I just need to know if its wrong for any future issues.

This is all from my experience, hope it helps a bit:

1) I have usually seen framing then sub floor around it (use 3/4 instead of 5/8 ply for floor if you don't want to have a hard time nailing hardwood flooring on afterwards).

2) Yes, vapor barrier on the concrete floor then sub floor...do not forget to put vapor barrier under your framing where the wood touches the concrete; the wood will gather humidity from the slab and rot over time if this is not done.

3) Cant say with 100% certainty...

Hope i helped

Dan

oops

Never ever put wood directly in contact with concrete.

So if you didnt put any "Carton goudronné" between your concrete floor and your suframe floor you may have humidiy problem.

Best thing to do is to put "carton goudronne" all over the concrete floor, then put some forences every 12-16 inch and then put some plywood sheet on top of them.

And why did you put plywood between your studs on the walls??

-Why isn't there foam included in your wall. You put insulation between the stud and concrete? I don't get it.

-The floor, apparently needs tar paper to reduce humidity issues.

dcoty said:

This is all from my experience, hope it helps a bit:

1) I have usually seen framing then sub floor around it (use 3/4 instead of 5/8 ply for floor if you don't want to have a hard time nailing hardwood flooring on afterwards).

2) Yes, vapor barrier on the concrete floor then sub floor...do not forget to put vapor barrier under your framing where the wood touches the concrete; the wood will gather humidity from the slab and rot over time if this is not done.

3) Cant say with 100% certainty...

Hope i helped

Dan

Click to expand...

Thanks.

No wood comes in contact with concrete as well.

AcuraBoy said:

Never ever put wood directly in contact with concrete.

So if you didnt put any "Carton goudronné" between your concrete floor and your suframe floor you may have humidiy problem.

Best thing to do is to put "carton goudronne" all over the concrete floor, then put some forences every 12-16 inch and then put some plywood sheet on top of them.

And why did you put plywood between your studs on the walls??

Click to expand...

There is no plywood between the stud. Where do you see that? lol unless your talking about the roxul.

I didnt go with Tar paper, I used the heaviest polyethylene sheet available at reno instead all across the concrete slab before building the subfloor and studs. As said above, no wood is in direct contact with concrete.

pour le mur de 2x4 direct sur le subfloor ca derange pas grand chose sauf si tu as un degat d'eau pis qui faut que tu change le plancher la tes dans marde si y faut que tu defasse le plancher. En temps normal la lisse qui va sur le plancher de beton est recouverte avec du solin pour pas que le bois reste en contact avec le beton.


Le styrofoam bleu sur le mur c'est bon et t'etais vraiment pas obliger de mettre de la roxul (un ti peu extreme ton affaire) mais c'est tres bon. Sauf tu aurais tu mettre un espace d'air entre le styrofoam pis le mur de 2x4 tu tack une forrens derriere le mur ca donne ton espace d'air mais spa bin grave.

pour le plancher de beton le papier goudronner c'est pas tres recommander a cause des vapeur de goudron qui s'echappe mais tu met un papier carton celui qui est brun c'est le meme papier que le goudronner sauf ye brun. a ce que j'ai pu comprenne toi tu as mis un polytene a terre? Ton plancher stu un subfloor? plywoods sur forrens?

si t'as des questions gene toi pas je suis menuisier

useful thread - I need to finish my basement as well. I thought about a subfloor but the building inspector that evaluated the new house said that I can just do a vapor barrier and put a floating floor above that.

zigzag said:

pour le mur de 2x4 direct sur le subfloor ca derange pas grand chose sauf si tu as un degat d'eau pis qui faut que tu change le plancher la tes dans marde si y faut que tu defasse le plancher. En temps normal la lisse qui va sur le plancher de beton est recouverte avec du solin pour pas que le bois reste en contact avec le beton.


Le styrofoam bleu sur le mur c'est bon et t'etais vraiment pas obliger de mettre de la roxul (un ti peu extreme ton affaire) mais c'est tres bon. Sauf tu aurais tu mettre un espace d'air entre le styrofoam pis le mur de 2x4 tu tack une forrens derriere le mur ca donne ton espace d'air mais spa bin grave.

pour le plancher de beton le papier goudronner c'est pas tres recommander a cause des vapeur de goudron qui s'echappe mais tu met un papier carton celui qui est brun c'est le meme papier que le goudronner sauf ye brun. a ce que j'ai pu comprenne toi tu as mis un polytene a terre? Ton plancher stu un subfloor? plywoods sur forrens?

si t'as des questions gene toi pas je suis menuisier

Click to expand...

Merci beaucoup pour les infos. Oui cest ca, jai mis un polytene de .15mm directement sur le beton.

photo:



cest exact. Plywood sur forrens ensuite.

Pour mon mur, cest trop tard...... ca a cliqué dans ma tete apres que jai installé le mur, que jaurais du laisser un espace entre les 2x4 et sytro pour lhumidité.

Je demande ce question parce jai envis de savoir si ca pourrait causer un probleme de moissure dans le futur.... cest pour ca jai ouvert ce thread.

Je sait que le Roxul cest deja beaucoup mieux que le "pink panther" parce qu'il est impermeable, donc beaucoup moin de chance de moissure.

Nice thread... please post more photos of your progress as you go along.

I'm doing my basement this year too. For subfloor i decided to put DELTA-FL product directly on concrete... and then on top of it i'll put wooden floating laminated floors.

http://www.cosella-dorken.com/bvf-ca-en/products/foundation_residential/floor/products/fl.php

For your point #3.... Styrofoam directly to concrete is fine. I don't think you'll have humidity issues if your exterior foundation walls were covered with tar completely. And i don't think you should have any humidity problems from inside of the house because you sealed up the wall completely. As long as you have correct humidity settings on your air exchanger you'll be fine.

the house was built in 1969. Dont think it has protection outside..... I dug about 2 feet deep beside the foundation wall to rebuild the drain (since the old one had complete sunk and totally useless and i scrape my car everytime I get in because it was in bad condition) and there was nothing but concrete....
I could be wrong.


Here are pics of those. The asphalt I've been doing since 2pm today. All thats left is to make it nice, compacted and pretty.













































If youre wondering why I cut the box, its because it was too long. I kept digging and got to the french drain and it was still sitting to high. Had to cut it and brought the whole cement frame beside the foundation.

The cement around the box is just to keep hydrostatic pressure from crushing it. If it can crack cement and asphalt, it can pulverize plastic. Mind you, this is very high gauge plastic made to withstand a lot. You can barely bend it but its not enough to handle that kind of pressure.

I also passed a fresh piping through the old cracked one.

Where does that box drain out to?
It looks like your garage is in the basement with driveway sloping down....
If the original box was all sunken in, perhaps there's not enough drainage underneath it or perhaps the box is too small.
If your driveway slopes down will this box acumulate enough water until it slowly drains away? Looks like your drainage box serves two purposes... to evacuate water from the garage and to evacuate water running down the driveway. How much volume of water it accumulates and how fast does it empty? I'm thinking you need the box the width of your whole driveway.

Just noticed your driveway pavement buckled.... you definitely had water drainage problem and it caused asphalt to crack.

russianguy if you put delta-fl you don't need a vaporbarrier since the delta-fl is the vapor barrier (among other things).. correct?

Yes delta-fl is a vapor barrier / subfloor all in one combo. And it's cheaper than the subfloor/vapor barrier route. You just need to tape the joints with tape and put a thin cushioning membrane on top of Delta-FL sheets before installing floating laminate floors.

Je peux te dire que tu travail bien je vois pas grand monde mettre du tape pour sceller le polythene en temps normal c'est overlapper de 16 pouces et merci bonsoir.

En passant la laine roxul que tu as mis juste le styrofoam fesais la job mais avec la roxul en plus tu vas ajouter plus de rsi (isolant) ton sous sol lete va etre plus frais. La difference entre roxul et la laine rose c'est que la roxul est insonorisante (avantage) sauf dans un sous sol ton mur de beton c'est un absorbeur de son. Donc la laine rose ca aurais faite la meme job mais stais pas necessaire d'ajouter dla laine a cause du styrofoam mais c'est faite. J'ai vue itoo que tu as pas descendus la laine jusqu'en bas pis c'est correct pour un sous sol. Le gel du sol c'est 5 pieds apres 5 pieds ca sers a rien. jte dis ca pour info.

Pour ton plancher pour le garder chaud ya un rouleau de papier d'alluminium avec des bulles ca coute cher mais c'est super bon. Ton plancher est isoler avec ste produit la. tu sacre ca direct sur le beton pis tu monte ton plancher avec ta forrens ou en 2x3. mais comme jtais dit plus haut toute est beau spa parfait mais ca bin du bon sens.

Russianguy said:

Where does that box drain out to?
It looks like your garage is in the basement with driveway sloping down....
If the original box was all sunken in, perhaps there's not enough drainage underneath it or perhaps the box is too small.
If your driveway slopes down will this box acumulate enough water until it slowly drains away? Looks like your drainage box serves two purposes... to evacuate water from the garage and to evacuate water running down the driveway. How much volume of water it accumulates and how fast does it empty? I'm thinking you need the box the width of your whole driveway.

Click to expand...

bunch of reasons why it sunk. Really Bad drainage and the entire area where I live is built on clay-like soil. As you can see the old one was sunken in and the people that live there never clean it, so basically there was no box. I was surprised that it was there. It was basically all filled up to the old pipe with dirt. It had sunken BELOW the asphalts level so the water would just penetrate through the soil and keep seeping under the old box.

Also I just changed the garage door. the frame of the garage door had rotted about 6-8 inches from the ground. Under the rotted wood was a hole. That hole would make all the rain water coming down the corner, drain in the soil under the asphalt and the garage. Really bad case of erosion.

The tube is large enough to handle all the water to drain away. I'm not worried. The box is merely there to accumulate dirt along the year. Not the water. If you noticed the tube is at the top of the box, not at the bottom. If it was at the bottom all the dirt and rocks would flow through it.

Lastly, there is actually two drainage systems. The one that I just rebuilt is connected to the much-much larger one in the center of the garage which is afterwards connected to main drain. The one you see is basically just for the rain water that comes down the driveway.

zigzag said:

Je peux te dire que tu travail bien je vois pas grand monde mettre du tape pour sceller le polythene en temps normal c'est overlapper de 16 pouces et merci bonsoir.

En passant la laine roxul que tu as mis juste le styrofoam fesais la job mais avec la roxul en plus tu vas ajouter plus de rsi (isolant) ton sous sol lete va etre plus frais. La difference entre roxul et la laine rose c'est que la roxul est insonorisante (avantage) sauf dans un sous sol ton mur de beton c'est un absorbeur de son. Donc la laine rose ca aurais faite la meme job mais stais pas necessaire d'ajouter dla laine a cause du styrofoam mais c'est faite. J'ai vue itoo que tu as pas descendus la laine jusqu'en bas pis c'est correct pour un sous sol. Le gel du sol c'est 5 pieds apres 5 pieds ca sers a rien. jte dis ca pour info.

Pour ton plancher pour le garder chaud ya un rouleau de papier d'alluminium avec des bulles ca coute cher mais c'est super bon. Ton plancher est isoler avec ste produit la. tu sacre ca direct sur le beton pis tu monte ton plancher avec ta forrens ou en 2x3. mais comme jtais dit plus haut toute est beau spa parfait mais ca bin du bon sens.

Click to expand...

lol ouais je sais je suis un peu freak quand ca viens a ca! je voulais avoir le plus haut valeur de r possible pour l'isolation. pendant l'été ca va rester plus froid, plus long et l'hiver plus chaud, plus long.

Selon moi c'était un ptit investissement qui vallait la peine .


Merci beaucoup pour les conseils et les commentaires!

je suis sur que tu va capotter quand tu va voir ca mais, pour lisolation du plancher:

j'y connais pas grand chose encore, mais tu fais une mechante belle job!

Your going to need a good chiropractor