od_man99
New member
That would be amazing. But usually, in second, third and fourth year of production cost are cut, because they figure out the cut corners they can use to reduce price.
I'd love to see 300hp version of this car, with Brembos etc..
Why is the BRZ and this commercial so much win.
- Thread starter M85Iroc-Z
- Start date
That would be amazing. But usually, in second, third and fourth year of production cost are cut, because they figure out the cut corners they can use to reduce price.
I'd love to see 300hp version of this car, with Brembos etc..
AcuraBoy
Legacy Member
Or you can lease it for 2-3 yearsand see what the new version will look like
Usually when you lease for 24 month-36 month is it more expensive?? I remember 4-5 years ago 24 month was not even available at the dealer.
JoeyV
New member
Yes, and you're entitled to your opinion, no doubt about that. But facts are facts. If every expert agrees on what a car is, then that is what the car is regardless of what your opinion may be. Experts agree - FR-S Fun car to drive. Yaris is not. You might have fun driving the Yaris, but it's not a "fun car".
There is in fact a Subaru BRZ STi version in the works. Here is a picture of the concept.
As for pricing, the car is not that expensive. Keep in mind the freight and delivery, tire, A/C charges and sales taxes are NOT part of the car's price since they differ from province to province.
For a quick comparison, let's look at the base Impreza's price vs. the starting STi version and see where the expected STi BRZ price would stand.
Standard Impreza - $19 995
STi Impreza - $38 195
Almost double the price, or roughly a $18 000 upgrade. So realistically, an STi version of the BRZ could be in the same price range as the current STi.
I still wonder why people constantly make such a big deal about the power. Looking at it objectively, the power number is only found at the red line. How often are you even there when you drive anyways? Okay, so you say you want a car that is CAPABLE of having that power for the rare times you want to go lapping or tracking. Again, objectively, the tracks we have here are all short and slow (except the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve and Mont Tremblay), so there is no need for huge power if you won't make use of it. Handling and weight balance is where it's at. If you want to go faster - "stage I" weight reduction. And for those who want good 1/4 times...well, you're completely missing the point of this car and should be shopping American.
AcuraBoy
Legacy Member
Yes, and you're entitled to your opinion, no doubt about that. But facts are facts. If every expert agrees on what a car is, then that is what the car is regardless of what your opinion may be. Experts agree - FR-S Fun car to drive. Yaris is not. You might have fun driving the Yaris, but it's not a "fun car".
There is in fact a Subaru BRZ STi version in the works. Here is a picture of the concept.
As for pricing, the car is not that expensive. Keep in mind the freight and delivery, tire, A/C charges and sales taxes are NOT part of the car's price since they differ from province to province.
For a quick comparison, let's look at the base Impreza's price vs. the starting STi version and see where the expected STi BRZ price would stand.
Standard Impreza - $19 995
STi Impreza - $38 195
Almost double the price, or roughly a $18 000 upgrade. So realistically, an STi version of the BRZ could be in the same price range as the current STi.
I still wonder why people constantly make such a big deal about the power. Looking at it objectively, the power number is only found at the red line. How often are you even there when you drive anyways? Okay, so you say you want a car that is CAPABLE of having that power for the rare times you want to go lapping or tracking. Again, objectively, the tracks we have here are all short and slow (except the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve and Mont Tremblay), so there is no need for huge power if you won't make use of it. Handling and weight balance is where it's at. If you want to go faster - "stage I" weight reduction. And for those who want good 1/4 times...well, you're completely missing the point of this car and should be shopping American.
The price of the car, is the number you put on your check before buying the car, i dont care if the car is less expensive in the states here in quebec a fully loaded BRZ is 38k. And 38k = not cheap
When you have no problem to afford 38K for a 2 seat rwd with only 200hp, im pretty sure the price increase of an STI version wont be a problem for you.
And you want to know why people are bitching about the power ill tell you why:
THe FRS/BRZ are track car, they are built to be track friendly. So if you buy a FRS/BRZ and dont go track your car you totally miss the point of the car. Who give a shit if the car has the best suspension in his price range??? Are you going to slalom in montreal street??? We dont have the road here to really push the limits of the car, Unless you live near nice open road with no cops or traffic then good for you. But usually for us the best place where the frs/brz can shine is on the track.
What people want in a track car???? Balance fun and speed, frs/brz miss the last point, same thing goes with the mazda miata.
Never forget that = HP is like sex, you always want more
ToxicBug
Well-known member
The sign-up site seems to be down right now, but he probably got invited through MBA Research. I participated in a few focus groups for them, too, not for the BR-Z though.
Broody
Well-known member
The echo hatchback (not yaris) is known to be a fun car by many people. And specialists aren't any better than normal people, if they try a car sold as a sport car (frs) they will try to find out if it's fun. If they try a car sold as an econobox (echo) they will care more about the cup holders and gas mileage than fun (because peoplee looking for an echo usually don't care too much about pleasure), but the fun is still present. Still, the fact is that the echo is a blast to drive around town or on a small track.
You are missing the point of the car, not those who don't track it (although they should). The point of a light car, with decent NA power (but not too much), a sharp steering and suspension, is to have fun everyday on highway exits and around town. You rev that thing up to the redline without being illegal too fast, throw the car in the corners and have a big smile in your face. For me, a good driver's car is a car that is fun on the streets firsts. And for track use, any sub Lotus Elise car needs some modifications (brake pads, tires, suspension) to perform properly.
But to have fun around town, I'll save 25k and buy an Echo RS 2005
.
JoeyV
New member
No, that's the price you pay. Not the price of the car. When taxes change, the price of that car stays the same, but you pay more because of higher taxes. Don't get them confused.
While true, you're skipping over a little detail: You can get everything you just mentioned there for much less than that, because the $38K is for the "fully loaded" one. But the base model has the exact same features you just mentioned.
So based on what you just said, you're saying that anyone who buys this car and never goes to a track bought the car for nothing? And that it is impossible for a car to be fun off the track?
The car was built to be a fun car first and foremost while being track friendly. Not to be track dedicated car. There is no need to push the car to it's limits for it be a fun drive. Also, why does every one want more power to go faster? Why not simply become a better driver? It doesn't cost as much.
Who gives a shit if it has the best suspension in the price range? Most people who buy the car that are not complaining on a message board, that's who. The ones who don't think $38, 000 for a fully loaded car is "too much."And trust me, I know HP is like sex. If you're not good at it, you want a bigger number.
trish07
New member
Yes people always want more power but people are not always very smart. If you've done any real track racing i.e. lapping, then you would know that even if you have a 1000hp if the car cannot handle that power and use it in the corners proper even a 400hp car can beat the 1000hp car that's why power isn't everything and only a very few cars have been able to do this right. It's all about balance and getting power to the wheels and using that power efficiently. That is what the FRS/BRZ is. It's not a car meant for straights. It's a car for narrow, winding roads that can handle curves without being dangerous, and from the looks of the video it seems an easy and forgiving car to drive.
soncep
Legacy Member
Well, have a look at the dyno sheet of the GT86. This is why everyone wants a Turbo engine. This car has nothing under 5K RPM... and the torque figures are not much better. 143 of torque at 2500 and then when you put your foot down, it just drops!
http://toyobaru.net/forums/f9/dyno-tested-2013-scion-fr-s-927/
I have not driven this car, but all the reviews at the moment seem to agree it's like an old Civic SIR with a B16 engine. Yeah, power but only when you thrash the engine.
Honda on the other hand have learn that torque is a good thing and hence have a 2.4L Civic SI that has a better torque curve.
http://9thcivic.com/forum/threads/2012-civic-si-dyno-compared-to-2006-civic-si-dyno.2362/
I do believe they built a "cult" car for the track and to drift and know that the fan base will accept any shortcoming the car has. Good for them, but would most likely turn off many people because at that price range, you can get way better and a more "all around" driving car.
Broody
Well-known member
And old civic b16 were great because of their engine. A high reving na engine (although the frs could rev more) has it's own caracter and that's what people who buy them are looking for. Turbo engines with linear torque and peak power at 5000rpm are nice for lazy people who don't want to downshift, but they don't imply the driver as much a NA car.
And the Civic SI lost many fans since it had the k24.
And the Civic SI lost many fans since it had the k24.
manifeste00
Legacy Member
Ad is okay, I guess. Drifting on wet polished cement is not an impressive feat. However, they are hitting the mark with the target audience (it's being posted on a car forum where the average age is sub-25 after all isn't it?)
I would just like to point out that while both companies have their logo on it, this is a Toyota product through and through. The REAL story is this (shortened for your reading ease) :
-Toyota approached Subaru wanting to create a sports car in a joint venture.
-Subaru, not thinking Toyota was capable of doing such a thing refused the offer, but did give them engines to experiment with.
-Toyota reworked the engine making it more reliable and more fuel efficient, notably by adding it's DS4 direct injection system and by"fixing" the piston wobble issue.
-After the first concept was built, Toyota contacted Subaru and had them and journalists come and view the car and see the development.
-Subaru's jaw dropped and then they said they wanted in on the project.
-Most of the job being done, they worked together on the fine tuning of the car and made the front bumpers different for the respective cars
-Interiors were designed by each brand for their respective cars
So, while Subaru does have it's name on the engine, it's own variant of the car and a market share of the design as well as a thank you note in the credits (for using their facility to build the cars), this car, no matter the variant (FR-S GT86 or BRZ) is a Toyota product.
I think this is mostly right, since Toyota owns 20% of Fuji Heavy Industry...FHI being Subaru's manufacturer. I have a hard time believing Subaru closed its door on Toyota at first (after all they own part of Subaru) but the rest of the story makes sense.
trish07
New member
My thoughts...
AcuraBoy
Legacy Member
The best answerd is the mix of both, power and balance, not just pure balance, like i said miata was a great track car but it was lacking power.
This is a video of a mustang V6 2012-2013(not sure) with track pack vs a subaru brz (automatic tranny) not sure if the tranny really slow up the car.
Pure handling car doest win the race. A mix of both did
But keep in mind even before driving a 2013 brz and a 2013 mustang V6 with track pack, im pretty sure the BRZ will be my choice.
android25ua
Well-known member
The dyno graph soncep posted screams like all the old useless NA Subaru engines...
trish07
New member
I would say the driver wins the race
I've seen Echo, Yaris, Fit, Civic etc. in front of M3, Audi, VW and other more powerfull cars.....doing track is a mixed of a lot of things.....you have to have a good car that handles well and have a great power, but you first have to know how to drive....this is the hardest thing to do
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[Ef]saceone[sF]
Moderator
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