Cour municipale a marde qui ne raissonne plus : ticket d'exhaust

darkestfenix said:

Isnt it a known fact that if your car is imported and there is a close equivalent to your car in north america, the court can use that model as a source of information for the type of exhaust that you should have on your vehicle?

Click to expand...

darkestfenix said:

Ok now that I can type using a keyboard and not a cellphone I'll be clear why you lost, why you will lose and why anyone will continue to lose.

#1 This isn't criminal law. Just saying "YOU DON'T HAVE DOCUMENTS FROM TRANSPORT CANADA ABOUT MY CAR!!!! MY CAR WAS MADE IN JAPAN!!! YOU DON'T HAVE THE MANUFACTURER SPECIFICATIONS FOR MY MODEL!!!!" isn't enough. They don't have to be 100% right. They can be 51% right and they'll still win.



You're not doing your job properly as a defendant to prove YOU are the right one and either way, we all know you're wrong.

The judges base themselves on probability. If 95% of the time the judges/cops/prosecutors/experts interpretation of the law were right, then it's gonna take something more than your current arguments to prove you're right. They don't need to prove beyond ALL doubt that they are right, they've done it so many times that they're almost always considered right to the judges eyes. They've proven themselves time after time.

Furthermore, your car was sold here as the regular civics. The cops/prosecutors/experts have PROOF that MOST PROBABLY AND ALMOST CERTAINLY that the civic comes with a normal muffler. They don't need anything further than that. They don't need all the shit that you are crying about them not having.

It's your job to prove to the judge that the SIR came from the manufacturer with a freeflow exhaust or fartcan. Which you obviously didn't. Did you show exhaust diagrams of a fartcan on the SIR from Honda Japan? Probably not.

Therefore, you lost and you will lose again and again.

Civil law vs criminal law. Learn the differences. Civil law owned you and will own you again.






Face it. You didn't do a good job defending yourself if all you had we're the arguments you posted.

/thread.

Click to expand...

public-threat said:

my defence was more about asking them what was the estabised norm for my car so that they could prove on what they judged my exhaust to be illegal.

i dont think i would of gotten away with by telling them its a stock pipbomb... it was more about not being able to apply 258 as a defence that theyre proof had no comparable value.
anyway in this situation its more of a ' the judge will decide what the f'ck he wants anyway situation'

Click to expand...

La prépondérance signifie que l'existence d'un fait est plus probable que son inexistence, que le fait litigieux est non seulement possible, mais probable plutôt qu'improbable.

Click to expand...

darkestfenix said:

Yes the judge will decide what the fuck he wants anyway. Thats how ALL civil courts are technically. It fuckin sucks but it is what is.....

Once again the way you were going about it was wrong, only because your car is the pinnacle of street racing - the civic.

the cops/prosecutors/experts interpretation don't need to prove beyond ALL doubt that they are right, they've done it so many times that they're almost always considered right to the judges eyes. They've proven themselves time after time.

And again, your car was sold here as the regular civics under several models for yearssss. The cops/prosecutors/experts have PROOF that MOST PROBABLY AND ALMOST CERTAINLY that the civic comes with a normal muffler. They don't need anything further than that.

Like my quotes state it





its all nice and i enjoyed your input on your experience with your exhaust tickets but there is something very major that differs your sitution from mine.

EVEN if i did have the stock and normal exhaust line from the motor in the car i am still liable to get stopped down on every road and harrased with a ticket. the cops that stopped me and gave me the ticket never really saw the exhaust from theyre angle of where they where and preceded to harras me with their shit when they simply saw the cAR

Even if i find the stock exhaust or construct a stock copycat of the exhaust i am deemed in court to have no way whatsoever off proving that it is the fabricants norm because they themselves have no IDEA AND DOCUMENTATION OF what is that norm.

from picture ive seen from the net the stock exhaust looks more like a 90-93 integra lookalike and even if i put something like it on the car i will still be accused of bullshit and will again be confronted too some moneythinking judge that only reasons on whats loud and sporty.

all this would of not happenend if transport canada would of put theyre pants on and taken the money off my taxes and put it at the right place when cars like this where entering the country.

Click to expand...

public-threat said:

Yes the judge will decide what the fuck he wants anyway. Thats how ALL civil courts are technically. It fuckin sucks but it is what is.....

Once again the way you were going about it was wrong, only because your car is the pinnacle of street racing - the civic.

the cops/prosecutors/experts interpretation don't need to prove beyond ALL doubt that they are right, they've done it so many times that they're almost always considered right to the judges eyes. They've proven themselves time after time.

And again, your car was sold here as the regular civics under several models for yearssss. The cops/prosecutors/experts have PROOF that MOST PROBABLY AND ALMOST CERTAINLY that the civic comes with a normal muffler. They don't need anything further than that.

Like my quotes state it





its all nice and i enjoyed your input on your experience with your exhaust tickets but there is something very major that differs your sitution from mine.

EVEN if i did have the stock and normal exhaust line from the motor in the car i am still liable to get stopped down on every road and harrased with a ticket. the cops that stopped me and gave me the ticket never really saw the exhaust from theyre angle of where they where and preceded to harras me with their shit when they simply saw the cAR

Even if i find the stock exhaust or construct a stock copycat of the exhaust i am deemed in court to have no way whatsoever off proving that it is the fabricants norm because they themselves have no IDEA AND DOCUMENTATION OF what is that norm.

from picture ive seen from the net the stock exhaust looks more like a 90-93 integra lookalike and even if i put something like it on the car i will still be accused of bullshit and will again be confronted too some moneythinking judge that only reasons on whats loud and sporty.

all this would of not happenend if transport canada would of put theyre pants on and taken the money off my taxes and put it at the right place when cars like this where entering the country.

Click to expand...

Qc.Vision said:

Darkestfenix.... cest pas un litige civil ici. The state is pursuing to enforce a law (csr) and to obtain a punishment. That is no civil jurisdiction, but penal jurisdiction. Yes in some cases the burden of proff might not be exactly the same as the one required by criminal affaires, but it is much more close to it than to the burden of proof required in a civil case (beyond reasonnable doubt vs probability). Furthermore the state (police) is pursuing so they have to prove that an infraction to csr was commited; you dont have to prove that you are not guilty, but that your culpability cannot be legally established by the crown. Or in other words you dont have top proove that your exhaust is legal, you have to convince the judge that the police didnt proove that your exhaust is illegal.

Click to expand...

darkestfenix said:

It sucks to say, but my experience (and that of some people here as well) speaks otherwise.

I forget if it was carotman, srtmod or someone else who said it about CSR infractions and municipal courts regarding them, but:

You are guilty until proven innocent....

Click to expand...

darkestfenix said:

The cop never really saw my exhaust from his angle either. I saw the cop from the corner of my eye, he looked at my car and then proceeded to start up his car, and when I got going, he pulled me over. Cops are like that nowadays... some pull us over from the look of our car and assume there will be a modded exhaust. When there is, they go on ahead and give us our ticket. It is the choice we make by driving these cars. The problem is (and I spoke to both the cops that I anally raped in court after winning) there are toooooooooo many kids with shitboxes that are illegal on so many levels that they just stop wtv to them seems to be a modded car.

If you find a stock exhaust or construct a copycat, install it, and see if you get harassed.

I bet my left nut you won't get an exhaust ticket if it's a "classic" muffler. And even if you did, there is so much to argue that you can't lose.


I understand your point of view, but once again, 99% of all hondas (not just the civic) we're sold with classic type of mufflers. The story ends there. The probability of your car having a freeflow-type muffler stock from the manufacturer is so improbable that the judge has no choice but to lean the other way. The probability that you are indeed illegal, is 99% and you have shown nothing that can prove otherwise.

Yeah the cops have no proof, but they have probability and proof honda doesn't sell cars that come stock with fartcans/freeflows!!!!

Its like an expert who comes and tells me the prelude comes with the same exhaust on all models, and I say "what's your proof?". The judge doesn't give a fuck. The other guy is the specialist, not me to the courts eyes. Do "I" have proof to say otherwise?

And the same mentality applies almost to all cops. it fucking sucks, but this is what it is. You have to find a way to work around it!!

But like I said, your case was a lost cause from the getgo.

Click to expand...

public-threat said:

what you dont understand is that the law written like it is make its so that it cannot be illegal ... the only thing that makes them think its illegal is their presumption of it being illegal from the unwritten established norm and that cannot applied sincce the norm is non- existent. this is not the US darkest fenix its not up to me too find and establish there god dam norm and its only up too transport canada too decide what it is.

the norm for the car is establisehd by the origninal manufacturer and transport canada.not some shady suited specialist in a municipal court and not some crooked unfair judge and his shady municipal team.
your presumption that i should drop my pants and bow down to their shit is wrong. i am not going to conform to a law that states that every car should have a conformed and established exhaust system while at the same time that the state has taken my taxes and never gave a fuck too establis that same norm too wich it says that every car should have.

Click to expand...