NSA Spying On Canadians, CSEC Capable Of Similar Surveillance

Sandro_Bit

New member
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/06/08/nsa-spying-canada_n_3408662.html

Canadians’ private digital information is inevitably being caught up in the U.S.’s massive surveillance dragnet, and Canada's government has both the capability and the legal loopholes needed to spy on its own citizens as well, experts say.

The Obama administration was rocked this week by revelations that the U.S. National Security Agency collects millions of phone records from Verizon daily, and another report that a secret program called PRISM monitors users’ communications on the networks of numerous tech giants, including Apple, Facebook and Google.

“The NSA has obtained direct access to the systems of Google, Facebook, Apple and other US internet giants … which allows officials to collect material including search history, the content of emails, file transfers and live chats,” the Guardian reported.

That has raised concerns among privacy rights advocates that Canadians’ personal information may be getting caught up in the U.S.’s programs. Many experts say there is no “if” here; because of the integrated, international nature of online communication, it’s inevitable Canadians’ communications are being collected as part of the U.S. programs.

“There is no border,” Ronald Deibert, head of the University of Toronto’s Citizen Lab, told the Toronto Star. “The way telecommunication traffic is routed in North America, the fact of the matter is about 90 per cent of Canadian traffic — no one really knows the exact number — is routed through the United States.”

That data passes through “filters and checkpoints” and is “shared with third parties, with law enforcement and of course intelligence agencies that operate in the shadows,” he said.

But Canada may be carrying out its own versions of mass, warrantless surveillance; at the very least, experts say, treaties Canada has signed and clauses in national security laws give Canada’s government the legal leeway to do so.

Unbeknownst to most Canadians, Canada has laws on the books enabling monitoring that are very similar to the controversial provisions of the USA Patriot Act.

Michael Geist, a leading tech law expert, points out in a recent blog posting that section 21 of the Canadian Security Intelligence Act is “arguably similar” to a section of the Patriot Act.

“Both do not require probable cause and both can be used to obtain any type of records or any other tangible thing. Moreover, the target of both warrants need not be the target of the national security investigation,” Geist wrote.

Canada has its own version of the NSA as well -- the Communications Security Establishment Canada (CSEC), an extremely secretive government agency responsible for monitoring foreign communications related to Canada’s national security. The agency can officially only monitor Canadian communications when a foreign party is involved.

But CSEC’s no-spying-on-Canadians rule apparently disappears when the agency is asked for help from other agencies, such as the RCMP, border services or CSIS, according to CSEC expert Bill Robinson, as quoted at the Ottawa Citizen.

No one can say for sure how much spying on Canadians CSEC may be doing, but Geist argues that the agency’s own explanations of how Canadians can end up under surveillance “sound awfully similar to the powers in the U.S. Given the lack of transparency, it certainly seems possible that there are similar activities taking place here.”

CSEC’s budget and staff have more than doubled since 9/11, to 2,000 people and $400 million annually. And the agency recently got even more secretive, to the point that an annual report on the agency’s priorities is now classified.

Can we find out for certain what CSEC is doing? Probably not, Halifax privacy lawyer David Fraser says -- at least not without the sort of whistleblowing that brought the U.S. surveillance programs to light.

The CSEC told the Star Friday it “operates within all Canadian laws,” but went on to say it “cannot comment on its methods, operations and capabilities. To do so would undermine CSEC’s ability to carry out its mandate.”

Additionally, Deibert and others point out that Canada has long been part of an agreement with the U.S., U.K. Australia and New Zealand to monitor communications worldwide. This surveillance network was built in “conjunction and co-ordination with the National Security Agency,” Deibert says.

Known alternately as “Five Eyes” or ECHELON, the program reportedly began as a Cold War-era surveillance network, and continues to operate to this day.

Its existence has been part of the public record for more than a decade.

“Some speculate that Five Eyes was created with the very purpose of evading domestic laws that prohibit the agencies from collecting communications on their own citizens,” the Star reports.
 
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-23/page-7.html#h-8



Canada has similar disclosure provisions as those found in the USA Patriot Act. For example, s. 21 of the Canadian Security Intelligence Act provides for a warrant that permits almost any type of communication interception, surveillance or disclosure of records for purpose of national security. To obtain such a warrant, the Director of the CSIS or a designate of the Solicitor General is required to file an application with a Federal Court judge. The application must contain an affidavit stating "the facts relied on to justify the belief, on reasonable grounds, that a warrant... is required". The application must also outline why other investigative techniques are inappropriate. The warrant will typically last 60 days and is renewable on application. Section 21 orders could presumably also be applied to U.S. companies operating in Canada.

The section 21 warrant is arguably similar to a section 215 application made to the FISA Court. Both do not require probable cause and both can be used to obtain any type of records or any other tangible thing. Moreover, the target of both warrants need not be the target of the national security investigation.
 
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^Seriously? Could you be a more giant turd?

Privacy is pretty much the last barrier to tyranny.

What the fuck more do they have to do to rile you up?
 
Privacy is pretty much the last barrier to tyranny.

What the fuck more do they have to do to rile you up?

Ça fait bellurette que la vie privée n'appartient plus à ce monde. Disons que depuis 9/11, ça ne fait que s'accélérer, et ce pour tous les pays de l'Occident.
 
If you have nothing to hide who gives a crapola ?

Not sure what's the big deal, unless you're a pedo trading minor pics or planning a terrorist attack or something you don't have anything to worry about.
 
If you have nothing to hide who gives a crapola ?

Not sure what's the big deal, unless you're a pedo trading minor pics or planning a terrorist attack or something you don't have anything to worry about.

When you have sex with your wife/gf/bf, are you doing something wrong? Why do you close the fucking blinds?
 
When you have sex with your wife/gf/bf, are you doing something wrong? Why do you close the fucking blinds?

So don't use the internet. What you chose to keep on your computer about your personal life can be accessed by the government, who gives a shit, they wont use your sex video with your girlfriend to arrest you. They are not monitoring you to see what you had for breakfast. This is the natural evolution of a technologically advanced society. Unless you have something to hide I don't see what the problem is.
 
If you have nothing to hide who gives a crapola ?

Not sure what's the big deal, unless you're a pedo trading minor pics or planning a terrorist attack or something you don't have anything to worry about.

Trouvé sur internet

I live in a country generally assumed to be a dictatorship. One of the Arab spring countries. I have lived through curfews and have seen the outcomes of the sort of surveillance now being revealed in the US. People here talking about curfews aren't realizing what that actually FEELS like. It isn't about having to go inside, and the practicality of that. It's about creating the feeling that everyone, everything is watching. A few points:
1) the purpose of this surveillance from the governments point of view is to control enemies of the state. Not terrorists. People who are coalescing around ideas that would destabilize the status quo. These could be religious ideas. These could be groups like anon who are too good with tech for the governments liking. It makes it very easy to know who these people are. It also makes it very simple to control these people.
Lets say you are a college student and you get in with some people who want to stop farming practices that hurt animals. So you make a plan and go to protest these practices. You get there, and wow, the protest is huge. You never expected this, you were just goofing off. Well now everyone who was there is suspect. Even though you technically had the right to protest, you're now considered a dangerous person.
With this tech in place, the government doesn't have to put you in jail. They can do something more sinister. They can just email you a sexy picture you took with a girlfriend. Or they can email you a note saying that they can prove your dad is cheating on his taxes. Or they can threaten to get your dad fired. All you have to do, the email says, is help them catch your friends in the group. You have to report back every week, or you dad might lose his job. So you do. You turn in your friends and even though they try to keep meetings off grid, you're reporting on them to protect your dad.
2) Let's say number one goes on. The country is a weird place now. Really weird. Pretty soon, a movement springs up like occupy, except its bigger this time. People are really serious, and they are saying they want a government without this power. I guess people are realizing that it is a serious deal. You see on the news that tear gas was fired. Your friend calls you, frantic. They're shooting people. Oh my god. you never signed up for this. You say, fuck it. My dad might lose his job but I won't be responsible for anyone dying. That's going too far. You refuse to report anymore. You just stop going to meetings. You stay at home, and try not to watch the news. Three days later, police come to your door and arrest you. They confiscate your computer and phones, and they beat you up a bit. No one can help you so they all just sit quietly. They know if they say anything they're next. This happened in the country I live in. It is not a joke.
3) Its hard to say how long you were in there. What you saw was horrible. Most of the time, you only heard screams. People begging to be killed. Noises you've never heard before. You, you were lucky. You got kicked every day when they threw your moldy food at you, but no one shocked you. No one used sexual violence on you, at least that you remember. There were some times they gave you pills, and you can't say for sure what happened then. To be honest, sometimes the pills were the best part of your day, because at least then you didn't feel anything. You have scars on you from the way you were treated. You learn in prison that torture is now common. But everyone who uploads videos or pictures of this torture is labeled a leaker. Its considered a threat to national security. Pretty soon, a cut you got on your leg is looking really bad. You think it's infected. There were no doctors in prison, and it was so overcrowded, who knows what got in the cut. You go to the doctor, but he refuses to see you. He knows if he does the government can see the records that he treated you. Even you calling his office prompts a visit from the local police.
You decide to go home and see your parents. Maybe they can help. This leg is getting really bad. You get to their house. They aren't home. You can't reach them no matter how hard you try. A neighbor pulls you aside, and he quickly tells you they were arrested three weeks ago and haven't been seen since. You vaguely remember mentioning to them on the phone you were going to that protest. Even your little brother isn't there.
4) Is this even really happening? You look at the news. Sports scores. Celebrity news. It's like nothing is wrong. What the hell is going on? A stranger smirks at you reading the paper. You lose it. You shout at him "fuck you dude what are you laughing at can't you see I've got a fucking wound on my leg?"
"Sorry," he says. "I just didn't know anyone read the news anymore." There haven't been any real journalists for months. They're all in jail.
Everyone walking around is scared. They can't talk to anyone else because they don't know who is reporting for the government. Hell, at one time YOU were reporting for the government. Maybe they just want their kid to get through school. Maybe they want to keep their job. Maybe they're sick and want to be able to visit the doctor. It's always a simple reason. Good people always do bad things for simple reasons.
You want to protest. You want your family back. You need help for your leg. This is way beyond anything you ever wanted. It started because you just wanted to see fair treatment in farms. Now you're basically considered a terrorist, and everyone around you might be reporting on you. You definitely can't use a phone or email. You can't get a job. You can't even trust people face to face anymore. On every corner, there are people with guns. They are as scared as you are. They just don't want to lose their jobs. They don't want to be labeled as traitors.
This all happened in the country where I live.
You want to know why revolutions happen? Because little by little by little things get worse and worse. But this thing that is happening now is big. This is the key ingredient. This allows them to know everything they need to know to accomplish the above. The fact that they are doing it is proof that they are the sort of people who might use it in the way I described. In the country I live in, they also claimed it was for the safety of the people. Same in Soviet Russia. Same in East Germany. In fact, that is always the excuse that is used to surveil everyone. But it has never ONCE proven to be the reality.
Maybe Obama won't do it. Maybe the next guy won't, or the one after him. Maybe this story isn't about you. Maybe it happens 10 or 20 years from now, when a big war is happening, or after another big attack. Maybe it's about your daughter or your son. We just don't know yet. But what we do know is that right now, in this moment we have a choice. Are we okay with this, or not? Do we want this power to exist, or not?
You know for me, the reason I'm upset is that I grew up in school saying the pledge of allegiance. I was taught that the United States meant "liberty and justice for all." You get older, you learn that in this country we define that phrase based on the constitution. That's what tells us what liberty is and what justice is. Well, the government just violated that ideal. So if they aren't standing for liberty and justice anymore, what are they standing for? Safety?
Ask yourself a question. In the story I told above, does anyone sound safe?
I didn't make anything up. These things happened to people I know. We used to think it couldn't happen in America. But guess what? It's starting to happen.
I actually get really upset when people say "I don't have anything to hide. Let them read everything." People saying that have no idea what they are bringing down on their own heads. They are naive, and we need to listen to people in other countries who are clearly telling us that this is a horrible horrible sign and it is time to stand up and say no.
 
Un thread où sandro_bit et od_man se font basher ? Ben bâtard, ça commence bien une semaine ça!!!

:victory:
 
Is this an Sandrobite & odd_man thread?

☐ Guns
☐ Quebec
☑ Government
☑ Conpiracy
☑ Tinfoil hat

Looks like it is, see you guys in the next one.
 
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