Road Test: New Mustang 5.0 VS M3 by Motor Trend

IMO they are totally comparable cars. Enough with this apple to apple bullshit. These two cars are maybe aimed at different market but they are built to perform the same functions.

One is 40kish$$, the other is 70kish$$... that price tag difference leaves you wondering.

Good for Ford. I think BMW have been sitting on their ass a bit with the M3 development. Even on BMW forums, that new M3 is not receiving a whole lot of love because it barely outperforms the previous versions. Not edgy enough, too "bourgeois" for a M3... to heavy.

BMW's inboard computer user interface is a pain to use while Ford's Sync system is praised left and right for it's simplicity and functionality.

Interior finishes does increase initial price tag but not long term ownership price, quite the opposite actually. It helps the car keep a good resale value but it is also not worth the 30k$ differential. A bit of investment on Ford's part in that domain and that M3, as it stands today... looks a bit like an outdated offer.

It also can't be reasonably argued that the Mustang's operating cost is much lower then the BMW's, especially M series car. Spare parts are very expensive for these since wear & tear suspension components are not shared with other 3 series model which makes the Ford a better car to throw a round a circuit often.

There will be a shit ton metric of aftermarket development from North America for the Ford, not so much for the M3. What car will race team most likely pick as a base? A base 5.0 Mustang or a overly expensive M3. Especially considering the availability of the smaller/lighter 1 series with it's very tuning friendly Twin Turbo inline 6??

All in all, BMW really needs to step it up soon with this sport car flag ship of theirs because if they don't, the next company to beat give them a credibility blow like this could be from Korea... and this time, the interior fit&finish factor might not be so big.

*byewhore* badge.
 
Tu penses vraiment que la qualité des voitures Americains sont égale?

Bon voilà:

2009 Honda Accord 50,000km: $22,000

2009 Camry 50,000km: $20,000

2009 Ford Fusion 40,000km: $17,000

2009 Chevy Impala 50,000km: $15,000

2009 Dodge Charger 50,000km: $15,000

Pourquoi le Toyota et Honda sont evalués $3-5K plus après seulement 1.5 ans?


AUCUN MAUDIT rapport un hyundai a pas une bonne valeur de revente pourtant leur char sont du tres tres bonne qualité trouve autre chose pour dire que tout les char americain cé de la merde la valeur de revente veut rien dire tu achete un toyota et un honda usagé tu paye le gros prix et le char est fini raide c'est les acheteur qui sont cretins.
 
AUCUN MAUDIT rapport un hyundai a pas une bonne valeur de revente pourtant leur char sont du tres tres bonne qualité trouve autre chose pour dire que tout les char americain cé de la merde la valeur de revente veut rien dire tu achete un toyota et un honda usagé tu paye le gros prix et le char est fini raide c'est les acheteur qui sont cretins.

Clairement, souvent l'opinion des gens sur des modèles/marque change bien moins vite que les produits eux-même.
 
Tu penses vraiment que la qualité des voitures Americains sont égale?

Bon voilà:

2009 Honda Accord 50,000km: $22,000

2009 Camry 50,000km: $20,000

2009 Ford Fusion 40,000km: $17,000

2009 Chevy Impala 50,000km: $15,000

2009 Dodge Charger 50,000km: $15,000

Pourquoi le Toyota et Honda sont evalués $3-5K plus après seulement 1.5 ans?

The Fusion’s resale value after three year is now $1,600 higher than that of Toyota Motor Corp.’s Camry, according to Automotive Lease Guide.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-14/ford-leads-resale-value-gains-auto-lease-guide-says-update1-.html

Buick and Jaguar each rank highest in vehicle dependability in a tie, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2009 Vehicle Dependability StudySM (VDS) released today. Buick improves from a sixth-place ranking in 2008, while Jaguar improves from 10th place. Following in the top five rankings this year are Lexus, Toyota and Mercury.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/19/jaguar-and-buick-upset-lexus-in-j-d-power-2009-vehicle-dependab/

Ford’s sustained production of vehicles that are as dependable—or better than—some of the industry’s best dispels the notion that only Japanese manufacturers make reliable cars. Other than the Toyota Prius, the reliability of the 4-cylinder Fusion and Milan ranks higher than that of any other family sedan. Both of those Ford Motor Company products continue to beat the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry, while the upscale Lincoln MKZ tops its rivals, the Acura TL and Lexus ES.

http://pressroom.consumerreports.org/pressroom/2009/10/consumer-reports-2009-annual-car-reliability-survey-ford-secures-place-among-worlds-most-reliable-ca.html
 
But seriously I dont see why people are arguing about resale value and dependability now. Guys these are 2011 models if the ford ends up being a really reliable car and holds his resale value all of this is for nothing. The video was made to do exactly what we are doing now lol it worked bravo to motortrend for making us bicker ubout 2 cars which we still dont know how they will turn out.

Bravo to ford for making a car as fast as the M3. As for the rest we will find out but this comparison only display they can make a CAR as POWERFUL thats all we will wait for the rest.
 
Tu penses vraiment que la qualité des voitures Americains sont égale?

Bon voilà:

2009 Honda Accord 50,000km: $22,000

2009 Camry 50,000km: $20,000

2009 Ford Fusion 40,000km: $17,000

2009 Chevy Impala 50,000km: $15,000

2009 Dodge Charger 50,000km: $15,000

Pourquoi le Toyota et Honda sont evalués $3-5K plus après seulement 1.5 ans?

Those numbers are actually closer then I thought.

Why don't you calculate the actual cost of a Camry and a comparable Fusion. 60 months, 0 down, that's how most people buy cars. You'll see that actually the price diference is much higher then the 3K price difference in resale. Who lost more? The Camry owner. And I'm happy, that's what they deserve for being sheep.

Another major flaw in your argument:
You associate market resale value as a direct cause of a cars fit and finish. I hope you're not serious here. Do you honestly think that there is a direct correlation between fit and finish and resale value and wether a vehicule is a POS or not; and only that factor?

Let me tell you the biggest factor in determining market value. Consumer perception. Ie...people are sheep and think because the 93 Camry was much better than the 93 Taurus, a 09 Camry is much better than an 09 Fusion and also they're not able to form they're own opinions so they ask around.

Ford is not what it used to be. Manufacturers evolve. Some positively (Ford) some negatively (Honda, Toyota). Get used to it, I forsee a lot more surprises in the global auto market in the coming years with nice surprises from the americans, vw and especially the Koreans.
 
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Are you suggesting that my arguments are incorrect? Please provide something of a response so I can address it. Its not a matter of opinion either. If something is cheap its cheap. Unless you can somehow show me that they have revolutionized the way they make cars, American cars are still going to be worth shit after 50K kms. From an Escalade right down to a Cobalt..same exact thing.

Your arguments are flawed and simple opinions.

Fit and finish is in the end opinion so where are those facts? How can you measure fit and finish? And please no more "after 50K km it falls apart" non sense. In order to prove such a statement you would need a pretty large number of cars used in the exact same way and compared after 50 000 km. Given the # of cars sold in North-America yearly, for such a study, the sample size needed to make it relevant to the population is huge and no one will ever even try. Until then, it's all speculation and opinion based on your friend's, uncle's, friend's cousin's uncle's aunt stories.

Then, what makes you an expert in plastic quality and automotive fit and finish? What are your credentials?

For the simple fact that you stated something along the lines of " 2011 Stang GT is a piece of garbage because it is American and American cars have bad fit and finish" makes you loose all credibility as a automobile enthousiast.

But please, keep'em coming, at least your stuff is hilarious :D
 
Those numbers are actually closer then I thought.

Why don't you calculate the actual cost of a Camry and a comparable Fusion. 60 months, 0 down, that's how most people buy cars. You'll see that actually the price diference is much higher then the 3K price difference in resale. Who lost more? The Camry owner. And I'm happy, that's what they deserve for being sheep.

Another major flaw in your argument:
You associate market resale value as a direct cause of a cars fit and finish. I hope you're not serious here. Do you honestly think that there is a direct correlation between fit and finish and resale value and wether a vehicule is a POS or not; and only that factor?

Let me tell you the biggest factor in determining market value. Consumer perception. Ie...people are sheep and think because the 93 Camry was much better than the 93 Taurus, a 09 Camry is much better than an 09 Fusion and also they're not able to form they're own opinions so they ask around.

Ford is not what it used to be. Manufacturers evolve. Some positively (Ford) some negatively (Honda, Toyota). Get used to it, I forsee a lot more surprises in the global auto market in the coming years with nice surprises from the americans, vw and especially the Koreans.

I'm not saying resale value is the only measure but it does lend credibility to my argument. Take a similarly priced Fusion vs Camry and the Fusion owner will loose more value quicker. I just showed that. So far you have nothing credible to back up your argument other than me taking your word that a decades old trend has stopped for the 2011 model year. What was doner differently in 2011 that they didn't do in 2009?

Your arguments are flawed and simple opinions.

Fit and finish is in the end opinion so where are those facts? How can you measure fit and finish? And please no more "after 50K km it falls apart" non sense. In order to prove such a statement you would need a pretty large number of cars used in the exact same way and compared after 50 000 km. Given the # of cars sold in North-America yearly, for such a study, the sample size needed to make it relevant to the population is huge and no one will ever even try. Until then, it's all speculation and opinion based on your friend's, uncle's, friend's cousin's uncle's aunt stories.

Then, what makes you an expert in plastic quality and automotive fit and finish? What are your credentials?

For the simple fact that you stated something along the lines of " 2011 Stang GT is a piece of garbage because it is American and American cars have bad fit and finish" makes you loose all credibility as a automobile enthousiast.

But please, keep'em coming, at least your stuff is hilarious :D

What makes me an expert is having driven countless numbers of these vehicles from rental companies. I used to work for one. I'd see them new, with 5000 km, 20,000 km and 50,000km. This was maybe 8-9 years ago. Ok so maybe things have chnaged you argue? I rented a car last year and it was a Ford Fusion. Didn't make it off the lot before I had to return it.

- doors rattled
- shifter was a piece of shit
- indicator was loose
- seats were cheap and worn
- radio buttons were loose
etc
etc

Got a Nissan Altima and bam...like new. So no they haven't changed and I've given hands on expereince + actual data to back my claims up. So far all you have given me is a fantastic claim that American manufactuers have for the 2011 model year, done away with all their quality issues. I find that rather far fetched and hard to believe.
 
I'm not saying resale value is the only measure but it does lend credibility to my argument. Take a similarly priced Fusion vs Camry and the Fusion owner will loose more value quicker. I just showed that. So far you have nothing credible to back up your argument other than me taking your word that a decades old trend has stopped for the 2011 model year. What was doner differently in 2011 that they didn't do in 2009?



What makes me an expert is having driven countless numbers of these vehicles from rental companies. I used to work for one. I'd see them new, with 5000 km, 20,000 km and 50,000km. This was maybe 8-9 years ago. Ok so maybe things have chnaged you argue? I rented a car last year and it was a Ford Fusion. Didn't make it off the lot before I had to return it.

- doors rattled
- shifter was a piece of shit
- indicator was loose
- seats were cheap and worn
- radio buttons were loose
etc
etc

Got a Nissan Altima and bam...like new. So no they haven't changed and I've given hands on expereince + actual data to back my claims up. So far all you have given me is a fantastic claim that American manufactuers have for the 2011 model year, done away with all their quality issues. I find that rather far fetched and hard to believe.
Cars from rental compagnies are probably the most beaten to death cars on the road... I havent driven a Fusion but all the experts agree it's the best car in it's class so one would doubt the whole interior would be a big giant pile of crap. By the way I have a 97 Thunderbird 91 Mustang and a 99 Windstar and trust me nothing rattles so I don't know where you're getting this from. If you want to talk about bad finish and quality why don't you take a look at all those rusted Hondas and Mazdas..
 
I'm not saying resale value is the only measure but it does lend credibility to my argument. Take a similarly priced Fusion vs Camry and the Fusion owner will loose more value quicker.

I think your math skills are not as great as you think.

If a Camry costs 25k and is sold with 19K after 1 year and a Fusion costs 21K and is sold with 17K after 1 year, who lost more ?

I just showed that. So far you have nothing credible to back up your argument other than me taking your word that a decades old trend has stopped for the 2011 model year. What was doner differently in 2011 that they didn't do in 2009?

Who said all of a sudden things are different.

People's perception of how much of a quality product american cars are has been skewed for quite some time even though the cars have gotten better and better and better. It's tough to change people's minds especially since most are as stubborn as you.

The 2001-2005 gen Civic was a POS. From all points of view. Yet, people still bought it. Blinded by it's reputation, not very deserved anyway IMO. Same generation Focus was a superior car, from all points of view, and still people thought of it as if it was a Pinto. As I said before. People are sheep.


What makes me an expert is having driven countless numbers of these vehicles from rental companies. I used to work for one. I'd see them new, with 5000 km, 20,000 km and 50,000km. This was maybe 8-9 years ago. Ok so maybe things have chnaged you argue? I rented a car last year and it was a Ford Fusion. Didn't make it off the lot before I had to return it.

- doors rattled
- shifter was a piece of shit
- indicator was loose
- seats were cheap and worn
- radio buttons were loose
etc
etc

Got a Nissan Altima and bam...like new. So no they haven't changed and I've given hands on expereince + actual data to back my claims up. So far all you have given me is a fantastic claim that American manufactuers have for the 2011 model year, done away with all their quality issues. I find that rather far fetched and hard to believe.

I rented 2 Fusions in the past 2 years, a 2010 this year and a 2008 in 2008. Both have been flawless. If I didn't find the 2008 anything revolutionary, although I really liked it, the 2010 is really a great great car among mid-sizers. Solid feel, and felt like a much more expensive car (inside) while still being 4-5 000 less than a comparable Camry. Certinly nothing was falling off. It had 30k miles.

And I'm not the only one noticing great leaps forward in the 2010 + Ford models, starting with the Fusion and continuing with the Mustang and Taurus . Search the internet and you'll find even hardcore jap fanboy experts, that actually have real credentials not that they worked for a rental company, are noticing the major change. I'm not even gonna bring up JD Power studies, you'll probably say they're BS.
 
Actually my uncle test drives a lot of cars, he works for a magazine which does reviews. He test drove the 335d, the brand new tauraus sho, the fusion, the sti and a few other cars. The car he said was the worst was the fusion, the car he found was the most fun was the challenger. I hope he gets the M3 and the GT and i'll let you guys know what he thinks. BTW the taurus sho is fucking nice and im not usually into american cars as I find them gaz guzzlers but Ford make good cars and some bad cars just like all manufacturers but I dont believe the GT will be a bad car.
 
Actually my uncle test drives a lot of cars, he works for a magazine which does reviews. He test drove the 335d, the brand new tauraus sho, the fusion, the sti and a few other cars. The car he said was the worst was the fusion, the car he found was the most fun was the challenger. I hope he gets the M3 and the GT and i'll let you guys know what he thinks. BTW the taurus sho is fucking nice and im not usually into american cars as I find them gaz guzzlers but Ford make good cars and some bad cars just like all manufacturers but I dont believe the GT will be a bad car.

COOL! I test drives losts of carz too!!!!

Actually the Fusion received high praise from pretty much every top tier magazine. Auto Blog doesn't want to give up their tester that's how much they love it.
 
COOL! I test drives losts of carz too!!!!

Actually the Fusion received high praise from pretty much every top tier magazine. Auto Blog doesn't want to give up their tester that's how much they love it.

I hope its not the hybrid cause thats pretty bad
 
Well if the car dies on you cant start the car cause there's no charge left to start. The battery they use to drive the car is the same as the one that you use to start the car so even if you have gas if the battery dies well good luck.
 
whatever. When driving a mustang you'll still look like a douche that wears point zero shirts and parasuco jeans and hangs out at marabou. When driving a M3 you'll look like someone who has money. plain and simple.
 
Well if the car dies on you cant start the car cause there's no charge left to start. The battery they use to drive the car is the same as the one that you use to start the car so even if you have gas if the battery dies well good luck.

How old are you? 15?

Do you know how hybrid drive systems work?
 
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